Uuuuaaaah..! I have started building now..!

This does make sence to me.. I will change all the PCB layouts from now...

 

BTW.. How do you get the wires all neatly organized horizontally like that..!? Me like A LOT..!

Well that is a double sided board which means you can decide to arrange tracks horizontally on top layer and vertically on bottom layer, or vice versa. It's actually no big deal but still requires some experience. Anyway you've done a great job. Those LED's will work as long as the schematics are correct, despite how the PCB is laid out.

I can't help you much coz I'm so far away, yet I'll try what I can do should there be any further problem. Good luck.

Well that is a double sided board which means you can decide to arrange tracks horizontally on top layer and vertically on bottom layer, or vice versa. It's actually no big deal but still requires some experience. Anyway you've done a great job. Those LED's will work as long as the schematics are correct, despite how the PCB is laid out.

 

I can't help you much coz I'm so far away, yet I'll try what I can do should there be any further problem. Good luck.

I also use twosided boars. mostly because I cant seem to find room for routing all the tracks without a gazillion "vias"..

If experience is what it takes to make them neatly organized like this? Then I just need to aquire that experience ASAP..!

I will probably be nagging you with stupid (read as: .... stupid..) questions, if that's ok by you?

I also use twosided boars. mostly because I cant seem to find room for routing all the tracks without a gazillion "vias"..

 

If experience is what it takes to make them neatly organized like this? Then I just need to aquire that experience ASAP..!

 

I will probably be nagging you with stupid (read as: .... stupid..) questions, if that's ok by you?

Trust me you sound shrewd, dude.:smilewink:

There's really no shortcut to take when you try to obtain experiences of PCB layout. The best idea I may have is by several times of trail and error. You can finish the component placement and save the file as a template. Try to do the layout on a couple of copies of the template, notice how the minutiae affect the result. I usually look a few steps ahead as I place tracks. Sometimes I'd unroute all the tracks and start all over again. It's really hard to describe how you think when you're working on the PCB. One thing that I can tell those tracks is "we'll see".:D

Trust me you sound shrewd, dude.:smilewink:

 

There's really no shortcut to take when you try to obtain experiences of PCB layout. The best idea I may have is by several times of trail and error. You can finish the component placement and save the file as a template. Try to do the layout on a couple of copies of the template, notice how the minutiae affect the result. I usually look a few steps ahead as I place tracks. Sometimes I'd unroute all the tracks and start all over again. It's really hard to describe how you think when you're working on the PCB. One thing that I can tell those tracks is "we'll see".:D

I hate to say that you are absolutely right mate..!:music_whistling: I am most definately screwed beond any hope of salvation..! But the way to damnation is quite enjoyable if I might be so bold and say so! LMAO.!

I'll just keep improving my skills in PCB making as fast as I am able to. But still I ponder over a few things I'd like to ask you?

1. Your tracks are so narrow and elegant looking..! I use a toner transfer method to transfer the layout to the PCB. That's why I use 1mm wide track. It's just a lot easyer to get a good result that way.

What method do you use? And is there an easyer, and more accurate way than Laser-print transferring? I have skimmed the "how-to" on photoetching, but It seems both expensive and complicated! Am I wrong?

2. As I told you, I'll use 12v to run the backlight LED's on the panels. Do I need to make the traces wider for these?

3. Where in the name of Chri.... is it possible to obtain an XY Coordinate machining table at e reasonable price..? A manual one is just super..! If I need it to be CnC controlled I'll just convert it myself..

I have been hunting on e-bay for ages, and found a bunch of good bargains... All in the US..! So with the cost of transporting it to Norway it amounts to a fortune..! Aaaaagrh!

I have corrected the pcb's now.. The resistor problem should be gone now..

Feel free to download and use at your own will..!

I hate to say that you are absolutely right mate..!:music_whistling: I am most definately screwed beond any hope of salvation..! But the way ......

Sorry for this late response, I've been distracted for the passed 30 hours. You may have hear of the earthquake in China, my girlfriend was at school 44 miles from the epicenter and she still got to stay there with the faculties for the moment, there isn't much I can do but calming her down on the phone. It's raining heavily at the site and she's cold.

Speaking of your questions, here are some info:

1. The tracks.

You're right about the width, I used to place 1mm tracks when I had to make PCB's with the toner transfer method. The PCB on the picture I posted was manufactured by factory, and it's not really easy to fabricate a PCB like this at home. I've abandoned home making PCB's since four years ago. The boards you've made look good enough for me. I think you can stick to this method and try improving your skills working with it.

2. 12V power supply

A 1mm track allows approximately 1A of current to pass through. You might wanna calculate for youself how wide tracks are needed depending on the total current.

3. The machining tool

It's one hell of a large piece of equipment you're talking about. I'm sorry that I'm unable to give any suggestions on this. Coz I don't know much about it.

Trigger just have to say that I've followed many of your projects and you make some very cool things for simming. I hope I can have 1/8th the skills you have in this hobby! Great work.

Sorry for this late response, I've been distracted for the passed 30 hours. You may have hear of the earthquake in China, my girlfriend was at school 44 miles from the epicenter and she still got to stay there with the faculties for the moment, there isn't much I can do but calming her down on the phone. It's raining heavily at the site and she's cold.

Next time you talk to her , let here know that she is a brave woman.! And those come far between. I am pretty sure I speak for the rest of us when I say we'll keep our fingers, toes, arms and legs krossed for her returining safely back to you ASAP..!

(...thinking a while...) Come to think of it! It can't be easy on you either mate..! Hang in there..! These things always seem to have a tendency to sort itself out.. But I can imagine your frustration over not being able to do anything to improve the situation..

As far as me nagging about trivial PCB things.. Just asnwer whenever you feel like it.. It is no no great importance now. Girlfriend's safety comes first, Triggers nagging go waaaay back in the "to-do" list..!

Let me know how things progress mate.. At least let me know when she's safely back with you again. My thoughts go out to both of you (and some warm blankets to her as well..)

Started working on the pedal arm drawings today..

Next time you talk to her , let here know that she is a brave woman.! And those come far between. I am pretty sure I speak for the rest of us when I say we'll keep our fingers, toes, arms and legs krossed for her returining safely back to you ASAP...

Thank you so much for your wishes. We both appreciate your concern. Now the communications have been back to normal and transportation is also restored, she was able to take a bus heading for the neighboring province to spend a five-day break with her aunt. After that she will return to the institute for her cabin crew courses. She hasn't even been scratched, I've still got this beautiful and brave girl intact, and I'm paying her a visit in a few days. Thank you again, Trigger.

You can still ask questions about the PCB layout, I'm just good to proceed. Feel free to discuss any issue you wanna talk about.

Thank you so much for your wishes. We both appreciate your concern. Now the communications have been back to normal and transportation is also restored, she was able to take a bus heading for the neighboring province to spend a five-day break with her aunt. After that she will return to the institute for her cabin crew courses. She hasn't even been scratched, I've still got this beautiful and brave girl intact, and I'm paying her a visit in a few days. Thank you again, Trigger.

 

You can still ask questions about the PCB layout, I'm just good to proceed. Feel free to discuss any issue you wanna talk about.

Dude.. You made my day..! Was was really good news, and I just love starting the day with good news..! And I can imagine the days can't go fast enough for you before you go to see her .. I'm glad for you both..!:thumbup:

Actually I have a question for you. So far I have used REED relays (MEDER electronic SIL12-1A72-71D) to trigger the 12V current for the backlight LED's. But it seems They are not up for the job? According to the specs they should be able to?

http://www.meder.com/upload/produkte/46_en_1_Relay%20SIL%20Series%20e.pdf

Could it be that me making this first panel with just one resistor for 14 LED's is the problem? (BTW Alex.. I am going to follow your suggestion for the other panels.. One resistor for each LED. Because the one on my APU Panel gets REALLY hot after only a couple of seconds..)

And again.. Really glad for you.. and her naturally..! :D

Hi all

First post for me, been lurking around here since I saw the first preview on SimHQ a couple of weeks back.

Since I don’t have a collective at home I thought Black Shark was a good reason to start building one. I’ve previously built this joystick http://www.lsn.se/mango/joy/IMG_3487_shrunk.JPG, based on a Cougar, a couple of years back, and now it needs a mate:)

Anyway, I got a bunch of questions about the collective and it’s control box, that I despite of reading this thread haven’t been able to figure out (please forgive me if I missed it), so here we go:

• What type of buttons are used (on-off, push, collie hat etc) on the collective and what functions do they have?
  
• What is the purpose of the small motorcycle clutch look-a-like handle on the bottom of the collective rod? (I did see it mentioned as the rotorbrake, but I thought that the rotobrake was below the red fuel cut-off handles to the left)
  
• What is the length and travel (degrees) of the collective rod?
  
• What is the diameter of the grip?

Hope you guys and gals can help.

Other plans for this project includes the Autopilot panel, the Weapons panel, Abris panel (just the controls), INS panel, Gear lever, Fuel Cut-off Leavers, Ejection handle, Fire control panel and the CM panel + possibly some of the overhead panel (wipers etc) - i.e stuff you use a lot of the time.

And Alex, glad to hear that your girl is OK, must be a relief.

/Oakes

Hi all

 

First post for me, been lurking around here since I saw the first preview on SimHQ a couple of weeks back.

 

Since I don’t have a collective at home I thought Black Shark was a good reason to start building one. I’ve previously built this joystick http://www.lsn.se/mango/joy/IMG_3487_shrunk.JPG, based on a Cougar, a couple of years back, and now it needs a mate:)

 

Anyway, I got a bunch of questions about the collective and it’s control box, that I despite of reading this thread haven’t been able to figure out (please forgive me if I missed it), so here we go:

• What type of buttons are used (on-off, push, collie hat etc) on the collective and what functions do they have?
  
• What is the purpose of the small motorcycle clutch look-a-like handle on the bottom of the collective rod? (I did see it mentioned as the rotorbrake, but I thought that the rotobrake was below the red fuel cut-off handles to the left)
  
• What is the length and travel (degrees) of the collective rod?
  
• What is the diameter of the grip?

Hope you guys and gals can help.

 

Other plans for this project includes the Autopilot panel, the Weapons panel, Abris panel (just the controls), INS panel, Gear lever, Fuel Cut-off Leavers, Ejection handle, Fire control panel and the CM panel + possibly some of the overhead panel (wipers etc) - i.e stuff you use a lot of the time.

 

And Alex, glad to hear that your girl is OK, must be a relief.

 

/Oakes

I just popped in and saw this on my way out .. And all I could say was GODDAM..! That's a sweet mod you've done..

Gimme till tomorrow and I'll share all info I have with you mate..

Frдn Sverige alstе? Va kul..!

Gimme till tomorrow and I'll share all info I have with you mate..

 

Frдn Sverige alstе? Va kul..!

Well I seem to have forgotten that today is the 17. may, the national celebration of Norway becoming an independent state.. So today is all about the children... The ona day of the year when all children are alowed to eat as many icecreams and hotdogs they want.. It's really kinda cool, but it prevents me from having acsess to my home computer..

I'll make it real easy for you when it comes to the dimensions on the collective stick. PM me your e-mail and I'll sand over an E Drawing with everything you need. As far as panels go, I have finished the APU Panel, and buildt it and tested it and been sitting for hours looking at it being real proud of myself. The upper panel for the R-800 is also finished and tested last night before I left for Stavanger.

The lower "mystery" panel :music_whistling: on the left lower console has been cut from 5mm Plexi and should be quite easy to put together now I know the method.

The rotor-brake handles and fuel cut-off are mounted on the left lower consol.

I'll send it all to your e-mail, and you can pick and choose which parts you want to make use of.!?

Gotta run now.. I hear a barbeque with my name on it burning outside..!:doh:

Dude.. You made my day..! Was was really good news, and I just love starting the day with good news..! And I can imagine the days can't go fast enough for you before you go to see her .. I'm glad for you both..!:thumbup:

Yup, I'm burning at both ends to speed up this company project and hopefully the manager will give me a break next week. Really wanna go there.

Actually I have a question for you. So far I have used REED relays (MEDER electronic SIL12-1A72-71D) to trigger the 12V current for the backlight LED's. But it seems They are not up for the job? According to the specs they should be able to?

 

 

Could it be that me making this first panel with just one resistor for 14 LED's is the problem? (BTW Alex.. I am going to follow your suggestion for the other panels.. One resistor for each LED. Because the one on my APU Panel gets REALLY hot after only a couple of seconds..)

What voltage do you supply to the coil? And did you make sure of the right polarity? According to your previous posts it looks like you're trying to switch 12V output ON/OFF with 5V control signal. The nominal voltage for SIL12-1A72-71D is 12V, which means 5V across the coil won't provide adequate magnetic force for the reed to respond, an SIL05xxxx is needed instead. And if you reverse the supply polarity for the coil by mistake, it will fry the free wheel diod integrated inside. Did you make either mistake?

And again.. Really glad for you.. and her naturally..! :D

Thank you, we're both glad that there're people concerned about us.

Hi all

 

And Alex, glad to hear that your girl is OK, must be a relief.

 

/Oakes

Sure it was a relief. Thank you for your greetings. And good luck with the DIY.

 

Gotta run now.. I hear a barbeque with my name on it burning outside..!:doh:

Well you've got yourself a burning resistor and a burning barbeque, lol!

What voltage do you supply to the coil? And did you make sure of the right polarity? According to your previous posts it looks like you're trying to switch 12V output ON/OFF with 5V control signal. The nominal voltage for SIL12-1A72-71D is 12V, which means 5V across the coil won't provide adequate magnetic force for the reed to respond, an SIL05xxxx is needed instead. And if you reverse the supply polarity for the coil by mistake, it will fry the free wheel diod integrated inside. Did you make either mistake?

Well.. I hate to say that I think I might have made a bid doo-doo here... The relay DID trigger the 12V with a 5V current. But in my enthusiasm I have switched polarity (just as you pointed out NOT to do) and now it's busted..

You're quite right about it needing 12V to work though.. I just tested them, confirmed that it worked, and then mounted it on the PCB..

Looking at the specs paper was saved for later (make that to late).. LoL

However this is a small and easily fixable problem.. And I being a total beginner at PCB designing and electronics I just have to get used to stufff like this I guess..?

A new relay will be soldered on as soon as I get home..

Well.. I hate to say that I think I might have made a bid doo-doo here... The relay DID trigger the 12V with a 5V current. But in my enthusiasm I have switched polarity (just as you pointed out NOT to do) and now it's busted..

 

You're quite right about it needing 12V to work though.. I just tested them, confirmed that it worked, and then mounted it on the PCB..

 

Looking at the specs paper was saved for later (make that to late).. LoL

 

However this is a small and easily fixable problem.. And I being a total beginner at PCB designing and electronics I just have to get used to stufff like this I guess..?

 

A new relay will be soldered on as soon as I get home..

You said it worked, but did it work with 5V too? If it is so, I wouldn't suggest that you keep using the 12V relay at 5V. Get a 5V one with a diode. The free wheel diode is necessary because the coil is inductive, the moment you switch it off, the current through it won't disappear instantly. It will seek a path to form a circuit to dissipate its energy. A diode helps with this dissipation. Without the diode, the current will create a very high reverse voltage across the two ends of it, sometimes generating a spark. This high voltage won't do you much good, as it may damage other components in the circuit, sometimes your computer hardware.

You said it worked, but did it work with 5V too? If it is so, I wouldn't suggest that you keep using the 12V relay at 5V. Get a 5V one with a diode. The free wheel diode is necessary because the coil is inductive, the moment you switch it off, the current through it won't disappear instantly. It will seek a path to form a circuit to dissipate its energy. A diode helps with this dissipation. Without the diode, the current will create a very high reverse voltage across the two ends of it, sometimes generating a spark. This high voltage won't do you much good, as it may damage other components in the circuit, sometimes your computer hardware.

Youre so right.. I have ordered 5 Volt Reed relays that will replace the 12V ones.

The wierd thing is that the 12V relay from Hamlin will not trigger on a 5V current. But the one from MEDER will?

Hmmmm...? Diodes..! I completely forgot about those.. I'll have ANOTHER look at my PCB's and update if needed.. But please do keep telling me these things..! Remeber I am a complete NOOB at electronics and these are my very first PCB boards.. (I have a neeking suspisious feeling they will not be my last though):music_whistling:

Update pics 23. may 2008

Been real busy at work lately, so I haven't gotten a lot of building done. But there has been a little progress..

I have started soldering the wires on the APU's switches (doooh.. Like you didn't figure that one out from the pics, right)

As far as backlighting it I am still waiting for the new relays to ge here.. And hopefully I'll hvae the R-800 panel node by then as well..!

Having run out of blank PCB's (again) I had to use one I drilled holes on that were wrong placed.

Top side of the R-800 panels PCB You can clearly see I had to make some "shortcuts" to go arround the pre-drilled holes..)

And the bottom side.

And this is what it's for..

Started soldering the switches..

A bit of paint on the collective stick.. Major update coming on this one. I have found a design for the collective brake system..

Left Lower Pedestal coming together slowly but surely..

Getting bored with screwing and unsrewing the wires from my power supply I found these quick release connections, and added fuses for safety.. As you can see I have already run out of fuses for the 12V outlet (blush)

Dude, I've been out of town. Didn't keep track of your work for some time. Just saw your latest posts today. Your panel and especially the backlighting is simply awesome!

Hope to catch up with mine in a month or two. Meanwhile, I'd look to yours for inspiration!

Just realised I have'nt posted a single time in here, allthough I've been reading alot..

Simply awesome work Trigger!!! Very inspiring for us other guys wanting to build!!! :thumbup:

Dude, I've been out of town. Didn't keep track of your work for some time. Just saw your latest posts today. Your panel and especially the backlighting is simply awesome!

 

Hope to catch up with mine in a month or two. Meanwhile, I'd look to yours for inspiration!

Just realised I have'nt posted a single time in here, allthough I've been reading alot..

 

Simply awesome work Trigger!!! Very inspiring for us other guys wanting to build!!! :thumbup:

Sometimes I wish I could make a screenshot and stick in my head for rainy days..! If anyone are acting as an inspiration here it's you guys giving me feedback like this.. Thank you..! c",)

Though it's sunday I'm stuck at the office working all day, but I'll try make a post of the collective brake sollution tonight. I just have to rig it up and confirm that it really does work..

If so I can finally post drawings I that I can vouch for for both the collective box and the left pedestal with it's bells and whistles..!

The R-800 panels switches has been soldered on to the PCB now. And AGAIN I'm kicking myself for not keeping all the solderpads on one side. At least the ones where the switches are connected to the PCB.. Makiing PCB's are easy.. Maiking GOOD PCB's is damn hard..! It's like forcing my mind to multitask, and think ahead.. Neither of whitch I'm specially good at..!:cry:

But We'll get there.. :) Slowly but surely the cockpit is coming together and working.. I think I'll probably be the only one saying thank god BS has'nt been released yet.! Building this makes me think of the shear complexity it ust be to actually code the simulator and all it's workings..

So today my hat goes of to ED and the BETA testers for the work THEY put down in making BlackShark.

AND all you fellow flightsimmers for all your encouraging feedback and helping comments. I REALLY mean it when I say that I would givven up a long time ago without you..!:thumbup:

Sweet! Looking forward to seeing that collective brake!! :)

I was thinking of using a bicycle brake lever.. Did you make yours from scratch?

Also I'm very curious to how you'll build your pedals!!

I just 'almost sorta kinda' finnished my pedals, but they're more like classic airplane pedals with toe-brakes and all (will post some pics when I get hold of a camera ;) ).

Sweet! Looking forward to seeing that collective brake!! :)

I was thinking of using a bicycle brake lever.. Did you make yours from scratch?

Also I'm very curious to how you'll build your pedals!!

I just 'almost sorta kinda' finnished my pedals, but they're more like classic airplane pedals with toe-brakes and all (will post some pics when I get hold of a camera ;) ).

Make it from scrach..? Hell no.. ! :smilewink: I was going for the same idea as you, but I found the brake handles for motorcycles just a little ... more massive, if you know what I mean? They just seemed better..

As for the brake I'm using the brakepad thingie from an old mountainbike that push agains the walls the collective is supended in.. Had a whole bunch of complicated and probably not well working ideas before this. But then I saw the brake arm's on a kids bike and whent.. "Hmmm.. that looks like it could actually work..?"