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Inside view of TM HOTAS Warthog


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If someone finds the right grease... share with the world in bold capitals! I think this could be a "sticking point" for WH users for some time, if you pardon the pun. The problem is that TM tried to make a stick that is center-mounted in the real aircraft, into a desktop replica. If it was taller and designed to be mounted to the floor, this problem might not exist.

 

You are absolutey correct in that if the stick had a larger shaft, ANY imperfections regarding stick travel would be diminished. Barring that, a good heavy, plastic-friendly grease works wonders! I am using automotive synthetic lithium grease.

 

Just be careful. Repairing a pinched wire is not fun!

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I've changed the silicone oil to to silicone grease between the o-ring and the upper ball joint. The silicone grease is specially made for plastic and rubber materials, sticks well on these surfaces. The result is good, next time I'll try it inside the ball joint.

 

My second attempt will be a new o-ring to replace this very soft, sponge-like material that touches the upper ball joint. I need an other material which is not hard plastic but not as elastic like the present o-ring.


Edited by 59th_Bird

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Sorry TM, im gonna skipp the WT and im going to investigate the X65F.

Good luck with that choice. The X65F is garbage, the throttle at the lowest friction is awful. I had to use two hands to operate it. A throttle is suppose to be smooth, the X-65F is not.

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Well done, Frazer!

 

I wonder where are those blokes who gave me negative reps for stating that it is a perfectly legitimate to conclude that, in the light of HOTAS Cougar flaws, Thrustmaster will screw something up. Actually I underestimated Thrustmaster - I really thought with so little moving parts it was highly unlikely they will. But unfortunately "Yes we can!" seems to be theirs motto too :D

 

If someone chooses to believe creations of some marketing guys and former tampon designers (you don't think Thrustmaster hires real engineers, do you? :) ; won't even mention Logitech and others) rather than someone who grew up with a piece of metal and grease on its hands then it's up to you. But keep it to yourself as you're just mirroring what's already being done by a subject company.

 

So a big thank you for the great job you did, Frazer! Reviewers tend to focus on... things everyone already knew. Thanks to your work potential buyers will be able to see what modding will be required to get satisfactory results with HOTAS Warthog and, what's even more important, to decide before purchase weather one can afford such modding. And get a new perspective on the final prize.

 

Good luck with that choice. The X65F is garbage, the throttle at the lowest friction is awful. I had to use two hands to operate it. A throttle is suppose to be smooth, the X-65F is not.

On the other hand throttle mechanisms are far easier to fix than sticks gimbal mechanisms. Or even to make a new throttle mechanism, from scratch.


Edited by Bucic
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This is being blown out of proportion. As Frazer said, it's only for ONE particular piece of flying that the WH lets him down - precision formation leading. Other than that, he even acknowledges the WH is a fine piece of hardware.

 

Like it or not, it is the most solid and high quality stick (overall) out there on the market. It is the best you can buy aimed at us home simmers and as noted in other reviews, the quality is something you'd see in real aircraft or high grade simulators. The WH is more than satisfactory.

I bet if you opened the x65 they'd be some cheap plastic in there too.

 

It really is your loss that you have this attitude and really, it's nothing off our backs. I'm more than happy with the purchase. Would I buy it again? - in a hearbeat. Until another company releases something of this calibre and quality. CH listening?

 

 

I wonder where are those blokes who gave me negative reps for stating that it is a perfectly legitimate to conclude that, in the light of HOTAS Cougar flaws, Thrustmaster will screw something up. Actually I underestimated Thrustmaster - I really thought with so little moving parts it was highly unlikely they will. But unfortunately "Yes we can!" seems to be theirs motto too :D

 

If someone chooses to believe creations of some marketing guys and former tampon designers (you don't think Thrustmaster hires real engineers, do you? :) ; won't even mention Logitech and others) rather than someone who grew up with a piece of metal and grease on its hands then it's up to you. But keep it to yourself as you're just mirroring what's already being done by a subject company.

 

So a big thank you for the great job you did, Frazer! Reviewers tend to focus on... things everyone already knew. Thanks to your work potential buyers will be able to see what modding will be required to get satisfactory results with HOTAS Warthog and, what's even more important, to decide before purchase weather one can afford such modding. And get a new perspective on the final prize.

 

 

On the other hand throttle mechanisms are far easier to fix than sticks gimbal mechanisms. Or even to make a new throttle mechanism, from scratch.

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Bucic I agree with you on the cougar, 100%, I swore never to buy anything from TM again after that, but the Warthog isnt like that. There is no sticktion in my copy, maybe I dont feel it cos I dont fly formation lead (but I have really tried looking for this sticktion and bumps), or maybe Frazer has had bad luck and got one who shouldnt have been sent out, in that case he should send it back and get another one IMO. But I said it before, Cougar was one of the worst purchases I ever made and Warthog is one of the best*.

 

Just trying to say the Warthog is really good, and shouldnt be affected by the negative feeling towards Cougar that many have. We should judge the Warthog for its own faults and strong points, and not let the judgement be affected by Cougar.

 

 

*unless some serious problems with mine appear in the future

Edit: for spelling sticktion wrong :doh:


Edited by Sticky
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....So a big thank you for the great job you did, Frazer! Reviewers tend to focus on... things everyone already knew. Thanks to your work potential buyers will be able to see what modding will be required to get satisfactory results with HOTAS Warthog and, what's even more important, to decide before purchase weather one can afford such modding. And get a new perspective on the final prize.....

 

 

Thou doth protest too much, methinks.....

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Thou doth protest too much, methinks.....

In the other topic I didn't even pretend then I was not mostly about mocking the product. After I provided valuable info regarding potentiometers that is. I will keep my posts focused more on the technical side in the future although often the caliber of manufacturer's stupidity (or rather - plain impertinence) is soooo tempting ;)

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.....often the caliber of manufacturer's stupidity (or rather - plain impertinence) is soooo tempting ;)

 

Aye - Inversely Proportional to the amount we as consumers are willing to pay for the end-product.

 

All things considered, if we want better quality we must be prepared to pay for it.

 

Will we?

 

Hell No and we all know it!

 

Thrustmaster knew it too, hence the quality of the WH as it is. They got it just about right too so good on them. Pure marketing genius at a time where the market sorely needed a product of superior quality and design. And do not even get me started on the WH being 'expensive'. You just gotta look to the Saitek X65.......Gotta love Economics :D

 

 

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I usually mock design flaws that are not economically explainable i.e. mechanisms that could have been done vastly better without the increase in production costs. Why are you so cruel denying stupidity (impertinence) its right to be pure and unmotivated? :D


Edited by Bucic
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I usually mock design flaws that are not economically explainable i.e. mechanisms that could have been done vastly better without the increase in production costs. Why are you so cruel denying stupidity (impertinence) its right to be pure and unmotivated? :D

 

Anyway, for many among the virtual pilots this sticktion is not really a problem, as they don't need extreme precision.

Those of weak nerves or heart are advised not to view the Thrustmaster's ad below

 

 

9EqnOWG9Prg

 

For 86% of flight sim players precision is the most important thing. Followed by a bunch of overshoot sensors parameters as Thrustmaster knows that numbers sell. That line sounds like a sick joke, doesn't it?

 

 

I wonder how CH's product will perform...

CHProd_IITSEC_small.jpg

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I just got done removing the stock TM grease and adding a light coating of Dow Corning Molykote EM-30L lithium soap designed for plastic on plastic. What a world of difference. Now I can make one finger joystick movements with no stiction.

 

I went through tons of rags and alcohol to get rid of all that garbage TM puts in there. That stuff is so thick and gooey and they use too much of it. That is what is making all of the problems. I would stay away from anything thick like wheel bearing grease or any petroleum products.

 

I put a thin layer on all of the contact points. The main rotator cup, the half sphere. I removed the two pins holding the inner lower half sphere and lubed those up as they are just bushings. Another thing I noticed is they didn't grease the main spring pressure plate at all where it actually contacts the top of the rotator cuff.

 

Anyways, if you do get inside to change out all of the lubrication be very gentle. Those little wires and connectors are super fragile! Let's just say I had to break out the soldering iron. ;)

 

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Hi,

 

Im sorry if i hurt some feelings concerning my earlier comments on the TM WT. Right now im using a Logitech 3D extreme...

When looking at YT vids i must get a hold on to myself not to run to the strore to buy it! Im very sure that the WT is a very fine piece of hardware. No doubt about that. I also red abouy the throttle stifness of the X65F.

Its not about the TM or the x65F. Its about the manufactures i dont understand. If i buy hardware i dont want to open it up and trying to find a good grease, no matter what kind of hardware. Comming up for a bomb run the minimal movements must be slick. I hate it when i have to correct my correction because im fighting against a force due to stickyness, if it is a steering wheel, joystick / pad, mouse i dont care. My logitech costs me about 35 euros. The TM will cost me about 10 times more so i expect a perfect product.

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Without sollutions there aren't any problems

 

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Strange how people are prone do destroyh without giving any other option to the so called failures that for them are sooo evident.

Bashing without building is easy.

Now it appear some TW have some Problem with greasing/lubricating and some jump on the pool without looking if its filled with water or not.

Its as if they are looking for any excuse to convince themselves not to buy.

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I usually mock design flaws that are not economically explainable i.e. mechanisms that could have been done vastly better without the increase in production costs. Why are you so cruel denying stupidity (impertinence) its right to be pure and unmotivated? :D

 

 

Those of weak nerves or heart are advised not to view the Thrustmaster's ad below

 

 

9EqnOWG9Prg

 

For 86% of flight sim players precision is the most important thing. Followed by a bunch of overshoot sensors parameters as Thrustmaster knows that numbers sell. That line sounds like a sick joke, doesn't it?

 

 

I wonder how CH's product will perform...

CHProd_IITSEC_small.jpg

 

Well they will perform as per HC:

UGLY, UNCONFORTABLE but RELIABLE and quite LASTING.

 

But the 2 birds on the picture doesn t scream market, the scream : Momy i wanna be MILITARY.

Design was never the strong CH point, but this time they've outdone themselves, and we all know, apar tuniforms, Military doesn t care about looks.

There is also the point they are obviously not done for desktop simers. Base footprint is too straight compared to the heigh.

So, unless they are as floppy as my balls, there s no way to use them without toppling the base witohut screwing them to some unmoving or way larger surface.

And then the Height, too unconfortable for desktop user, even if they are stable, they seem way taller than the already skyrocketing TM WT.

So they scream SIM-PIT, SIM-PIT, SIM-PIT, SIM-PIT!!!!

 

On the other hand as the shaft are that tall they will most probably operate smoothly, long shafts are used to dampen stickyness and other undesired stuff.

Frazer and other sticktion bothered people, may find what they seek there, if all esle fail with WT.


Edited by Succellus

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Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.

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Was the only fitting comparison i could make, sorry...

HaF 922, Asus rampage extreme 3 gene, I7 950 with Noctua D14, MSI gtx 460 hawk, G skill 1600 8gb, 1.5 giga samsung HD.

Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.

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Its as if they are looking for any excuse to convince themselves not to buy.

 

Well...the manufactures needs to convince me to buy their hardware. Im gaming for 15 years and i have spent thousands(!) of euros onto games and hardware. As im getting older im getting more critical. So before i buy i read forums like these to read others opion about hardware. And this item is important for me. I dont want to be disappointed afterwards. I dont know about you but i think 350 euro's is a lot of money for a gaming device....whoops....simulator controller. Im just being critical towards a manufacturer and now i jump in a pool without water? Well...im just looking at the quality of water that is in the pool.

Without sollutions there aren't any problems

 

CASE: CM 690 II / PSU: CM 750 Realpower / MB: MSI P55 GD65 / CPU: I7-860 @ 3,8 GHZ / MEM: 4x2GB OCZ 1866 Platinum / SB: Creative X-FI Extreme gamer / GPU: ASUS GTX 275 / HD: 2 x Samsung F1 1 GB / OS: WIN 7 64 Bit H.E. / MON: 1 x Samsung Syncmaster P2770HD & 1 x Samsung syncmaster 940bf / Logitech G27 / logitech G110 / Logitech M705 / Logitech Extreme 3D pro / Saitek Proflight Yoke, 2 USB Throttle controllers & rudders / TrackIR 4.0 /

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Well...the manufactures needs to convince me to buy their hardware. Im gaming for 15 years and i have spent thousands(!) of euros onto games and hardware. As im getting older im getting more critical. So before i buy i read forums like these to read others opion about hardware. And this item is important for me. I dont want to be disappointed afterwards. I dont know about you but i think 350 euro's is a lot of money for a gaming device....whoops....simulator controller. Im just being critical towards a manufacturer and now i jump in a pool without water? Well...im just looking at the quality of water that is in the pool.

 

Same here, 15 years of PC gaming, won t count pong... so far i payed 404 EU... now i m waiting for custom taxes, whichc can vary from 60% (with fret included) to 100% (with fret included).

But anyway it wasn t aimed at you... Your just being cautious, not doing any preemptive strike.

HaF 922, Asus rampage extreme 3 gene, I7 950 with Noctua D14, MSI gtx 460 hawk, G skill 1600 8gb, 1.5 giga samsung HD.

Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.

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Same here, 15 years of PC gaming, won t count pong... so far i payed 404 EU... now i m waiting for custom taxes, whichc can vary from 60% (with fret included) to 100% (with fret included).

But anyway it wasn t aimed at you... Your just being cautious, not doing any preemptive strike.

 

Well....with pong its gonna be about 30 years...lol. Excuses if i have red your post wrong.

This afternoon i have mailed a aviation store in The Netherlands. They have a good customer support. On appointment they setup hardware for testing. So hopefully next week i will be able to test to a few hours. Then i will be back with my end result:joystick:

Without sollutions there aren't any problems

 

CASE: CM 690 II / PSU: CM 750 Realpower / MB: MSI P55 GD65 / CPU: I7-860 @ 3,8 GHZ / MEM: 4x2GB OCZ 1866 Platinum / SB: Creative X-FI Extreme gamer / GPU: ASUS GTX 275 / HD: 2 x Samsung F1 1 GB / OS: WIN 7 64 Bit H.E. / MON: 1 x Samsung Syncmaster P2770HD & 1 x Samsung syncmaster 940bf / Logitech G27 / logitech G110 / Logitech M705 / Logitech Extreme 3D pro / Saitek Proflight Yoke, 2 USB Throttle controllers & rudders / TrackIR 4.0 /

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Just trying to say the Warthog is really good, and shouldnt be affected by the negative feeling towards Cougar that many have. We should judge the Warthog for its own faults and strong points, and not let the judgement be affected by Cougar.

 

AMEN! That's what I've been saying all along. :thumbup:

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OT side note

 

You guys talk too much about balls! :geek:

 

LMAO!!! :megalol:

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Second iteration. 6$'s mod.

 

950651_s.jpg 950652_s.jpg

 

That is looking sweet!! And as i have red all posts, i think that will be the fix against stickyness: al larger shaft so the force equels the entire lenght.

Probably most players have their WR on their desk. While putting the WT between your legs (like the real deal), the lenght of your arm could funtion as the stick like in the picture. This should be part of the WT package.

Without sollutions there aren't any problems

 

CASE: CM 690 II / PSU: CM 750 Realpower / MB: MSI P55 GD65 / CPU: I7-860 @ 3,8 GHZ / MEM: 4x2GB OCZ 1866 Platinum / SB: Creative X-FI Extreme gamer / GPU: ASUS GTX 275 / HD: 2 x Samsung F1 1 GB / OS: WIN 7 64 Bit H.E. / MON: 1 x Samsung Syncmaster P2770HD & 1 x Samsung syncmaster 940bf / Logitech G27 / logitech G110 / Logitech M705 / Logitech Extreme 3D pro / Saitek Proflight Yoke, 2 USB Throttle controllers & rudders / TrackIR 4.0 /

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