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DCS Mirage 2000C Discussion


Bluedrake42

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In RL, IFF has the ability positively ID a foe. You have to have the right stuff though. I suggest looking up COMBAT TREE ... and I'll mention that the F-15 -34 lists a 'correlated enemy target symbol' for IFF.



 

 

In RL, IFF generally only tells you if a contact is friendly or unknown.

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Just one note regarding weapons, sensors and how the work in real life vs. in the sim.

 

Unfortunately the French are really paranoid about their weapons systems and do not release any information to the public that they feel uncomfortable with, even when said weapon has been in the open for decades. Many of the weapons and sensor workings are based on open source documents which are very sparse in detail. So we must make educated guesses as to how the displays work and the like.

 

What I am trying to say is do not expect every single HUD view or VTB view be exactly as their real life counterpart. We are working with you tube screen grabs and whatnot and hopefully we will have a very small CEP on systems fidelity.

 

I'm aware of what u are saying ZEUS67. I know dassault is paranoid, as they kill the rafale project for FSX. The guy who did the rafale faces big problems according what I heard.

Are you in accord with dassault on the 2000c?


Edited by dartuil

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Just one note regarding weapons, sensors and how the work in real life vs. in the sim.

 

Unfortunately the French are really paranoid about their weapons systems and do not release any information to the public that they feel uncomfortable with, even when said weapon has been in the open for decades. Many of the weapons and sensor workings are based on open source documents which are very sparse in detail. So we must make educated guesses as to how the displays work and the like.

 

What I am trying to say is do not expect every single HUD view or VTB view be exactly as their real life counterpart. We are working with you tube screen grabs and whatnot and hopefully we will have a very small CEP on systems fidelity.

 

Well, the good news is, most of us have no idea what the real thing looks like. Just like with the other DCS aircraft 99.99% of us have never flown the real thing, so do your best and don't worry about it. It's a simulation after all.

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In RL, IFF has the ability positively ID a foe. You have to have the right stuff though. I suggest looking up COMBAT TREE ... and I'll mention that the F-15 -34 lists a 'correlated enemy target symbol' for IFF.



 

Yes I am aware of Combat Tree. Apparantly Iranian Tomcats had some successes against Iraqi MiGs with it. But it is a very special piece of equipment which relies on compromised enemy codes. I doubt that it would have worked against non-export MiGs, but considering the secretive nature of the device we will probably never know.

 

Still the Israeli expierience stands for itselfe. F-15 armed with AIM-7F and supported by E-2 AWACS scored 41 kills in the Bequaa Valley campaign, of which only a single one was BVR (hope I have the numbers correct without my books). There is even this interesting anecdote: An F-15 received clearance for a BVR shot by AWACS, yet the pilot decided to do a visual ID of his target non the less, only to identify it as friendly F-4.

 

The BVR identification problem was mostly solved by the time of Desert Storm, but DCS is supposed to cover all eras. As I enjoy 70s/80s fighters such as the MiG-21bis and some day the Mirage 2000C, I hope this will be improved by ED.

 

Edit: In order to not further derail this thread, I have opened a new topic on the subject of IFF: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2326747#post2326747


Edited by MBot
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Just one note regarding weapons, sensors and how the work in real life vs. in the sim.

 

Unfortunately the French are really paranoid about their weapons systems and do not release any information to the public that they feel uncomfortable with, even when said weapon has been in the open for decades. Many of the weapons and sensor workings are based on open source documents which are very sparse in detail. So we must make educated guesses as to how the displays work and the like.

 

What I am trying to say is do not expect every single HUD view or VTB view be exactly as their real life counterpart. We are working with you tube screen grabs and whatnot and hopefully we will have a very small CEP on systems fidelity.

 

I really appreciate your honesty and openness with this project, but I fear giving information like this to the public may end up with a bad result. The usual flight sim crowd can be really cruel and act very childish on topics about fidelity (even when most of these people are over their 30's or more).

I hope when you release the Mirage 2000C, you can fill the missing gaps from feedback by real world pilots.

 

Yes. In the rocket test video the gunsight was fixed at the 0,0 point. Now the fixed sight drops from that position based on ballistic drop properties for the DEFA rounds and the rockets.
C'mon show us :)
Edited by Airbuster
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I think we all understand that Dassault is one of the hardest companies to work with based on what we know of other projects.

 

Thanks for being candid with what we can expect in that regard Zeus, I think that if a good approximation can be made (And I'm sure you're all capable of that) then we'll have a sim that we can enjoy nontheless.

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I really appreciate your honesty and openness with this project, but I fear giving information like this to the public may end up with a bad result. The usual flight sim crowd can be really cruel and act very childish on topics about fidelity (even when most of these people are over their 30's or more).

I hope when you release the Mirage 2000C, you can fill the missing gaps from feedback by real world pilots.

 

C'mon show us :)

+1

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Yes it will have it!!

What a beautiful aircraft!! Cant wait!! I want to be beta tester!!! Contact me!! :)

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@Zeus thanks for your answer.

 

Well, the good news is, most of us have no idea what the real thing looks like. Just like with the other DCS aircraft 99.99% of us have never flown the real thing, so do your best and don't worry about it. It's a simulation after all.

 

I think you could even say no one has a clue of what would be a real BVR combat. The few examples of successful BVR launch were done in very specific contexts.

 

It may be a constant in conflict that no one knows what to expect before having faced it.

 

If the sim is fun, challenging and realistic (to a certain point) then it is all right.

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Will the M2K-C have air to air refueling capability in DCSW? Will it for example be able to refuel from an IL-78 tanker? or will it have it's own KC-135 added later on?
DCS does not currently distinguish between NATO and Russian probe/drogue refueling systems. The Mirage will probably be able to refuel with both the IL-78 and the S-3 tanker, as well as any other drogue tankers that are added to DCS. Considering that the upcoming F/A-18C has a refueling probe, we can probably expect an improved NATO drogue tanker soon.

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There is no un-manageable difference between the 2 probe/drogue refueling systems.

During Garuda exercice, M2000 tanked on Il-78, and Su-30MKIs on C-135FR.

 

Just one note regarding weapons, sensors and how the work in real life vs. in the sim.

 

Unfortunately the French are really paranoid about their weapons systems and do not release any information to the public that they feel uncomfortable with, even when said weapon has been in the open for decades. Many of the weapons and sensor workings are based on open source documents which are very sparse in detail. So we must make educated guesses as to how the displays work and the like.

 

What I am trying to say is do not expect every single HUD view or VTB view be exactly as their real life counterpart. We are working with you tube screen grabs and whatnot and hopefully we will have a very small CEP on systems fidelity.

I'm aware of that. I was under the impression that you had a SME available for the team, did I misunderstood that? :huh:

I'm sure several french enthousiasts (some of them are on the beta) are quite knowledgeable about the M2000 systems, and what they know is based mostly on open sources and independant confirmations (such as discussions with crews, airbases "private" visits and so on). If you use the (admitedly scarce) YT videos and the like plus those assets, I'm sure the result will be great :thumbup:

 

Cheers

Az'

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There is no un-manageable difference between the 2 probe/drogue refueling systems.

During Garuda exercice, M2000 tanked on Il-78, and Su-30MKIs on C-135FR.

I read that India swapped out all of the refueling equipment on their Russian aircraft for NATO systems. If that is correct, the Mirage 2000C should be able to refuel with an Indian Il-78, but not with a Russian Il-78.

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Air-to-Air gunsight test.

Changed the joystick to an older one. A Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Unfortunately it tends to roll the aircraft to the right so I have to fight the joystick all the time. So it is a toss up which one is worse.

 

Anyway, enjoy the video.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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Every thing looks nice.

 

Please use TrackIR so it feels more natural.

 

One question

I know it is WIP but just curious why the HUD is fixed. I think It should move on hard maneuvers.

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an orgasm for me......

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Real M2000 hud tapes during dogfights

Yes, we know. We will add those as soon as we can.

 

Oh, well this isn't how it is in the fsx mirage.

No, because it is not a funnel so we could not use the VRS TacPack's funnel functions and trying to get that snake work by ourselves in FSX is a real PITA and would take too long. It was a development decision. Development decisions about what to include/exclude in a given project are always made. Ideally everything is going to be simulated, realistically that is not possible because some stuff will be too expensive in development time for too little benefit.

 

As I said before, we want this aircraft to be as close as possible to the real one within the limitations of the simulator. We don't know DCS limits yet but we are certain that we are going to hit them sooner or later.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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