What do you think about P-51D and Flying Legends?

It's ok you are not offending anyone - the next US fixed wing jet DCS aircraft is being worked on in parallel to the Mustang.

 

Nate

I'm all for the P-51, it is a favorite of mine. Quick and nimble. However the announcement of the next "US Fixed wing aircraft" is the main attraction.

But...My 2 cents: (Based entirely on the few screen shots and info from the announcement)

Without counterpart aircraft and ground vehicles or emplacements from the same era, there will be little to do but joy ride. No one is asking for a full WW2 sim, but some vehicles/aircraft/emplacements that historically belong with the P-51 so we can make our own believable missions would be nice.

I am glad ED "fleshed out" a staff side project, but in my opinion it still feels a little emaciated. I'll be holding out for Nevada and the announcement of the next "US Fixed wing."

My opinion aside, I am sure the aerobatic pilots in our community can't wait. :) I trust Wingtip smoke will be included since it is in A-10C? I will enjoy the youtube productions of our virtual pilots' feats of precision flying!

 

But...My 2 cents:

I might say you have point - but nothing is set in stone - see the FAQ for example. To be honest it is too early to say what we will get in the end. I'll just say even I have been surprised at what they intend/have done.

Nate

sigh.... and i was expecting to fly some sort of ultra modern fly by wire missile shooting bird.

may be just me and barney, but new is always better.

I love DCS and ED been playing black shark and ai 10 for awhile now. I just heard about the. P 51 and I was exited and disappointed at the same time.

 

I just dont understand why the p51? You guys are not sure about counter part enemy aircraft yet like me109 or fw190 or even Korean war era mig's . Or realistic settings for the 51 to operate in. Now I understand it would take alot of time and effort to put forth those ideas and create the objects OK I get it.. then why not just make another modern fighter say the f18 or f16 or even an attack helicopter like the ah64 or ah1z cobra? Were all you have to do if create another single air frame model with cockpit and a campaign?

 

 

If I wanted to just fly a p51 in an unrealistic modern setting ill just use microsoft flight sim x

 

 

This is just my opinion sorry if I offend anyone..

no, it's a valid concern. i'm a little surprised that it's been a couple of years since their apache cockpit debuted/leaked. i would have expected that more than anything else.

also, a lot of people seem to mistake the inquisitive tone of these kinds of question for rebuke. no such thing. ed can do whatever they want, but you must admit this new direction seems a little out of the blue. i'd like to know more details.

Epic want for the AH64d longbow :D

I want ED to take a deep breath and release a 2seater air craft MP game, of course its not my neck on the line if the tech. cant be sorted in budget etc. :D

sigh.... and i was expecting to fly some sort of ultra modern fly by wire missile shooting bird.

 

This isn't going to happen either. If you want new and ultra modern, ED would have to guess how to simulate some of the systems as most of it will be classified. I don't think ED like to guess when they simulate.

Why argue? Those who does not want to play DCS-M won't probablt not buy it and the other will.

For those who want a modern aircraft, just wait playing DCS-W

For those who want to be constructive...

For those about to rock,... (we salute you)

;)

 

I just dont understand why the p51? You guys are not sure about counter part enemy aircraft yet like me109 or fw190 or even Korean war era mig's . Or realistic settings for the 51 to operate in. Now I understand it would take alot of time and effort to put forth those ideas and create the objects OK I get it.. then why not just make another modern fighter say the f18 or f16 or even an attack helicopter like the ah64 or ah1z cobra? Were all you have to do if create another single air frame model with cockpit and a campaign?

 

 

If I wanted to just fly a p51 in an unrealistic modern setting ill just use microsoft flight sim x

 

 

This is just my opinion sorry if I offend anyone..

Couldnt' agree more with the OP - the logic of releasing the P51 model without any era-specific terrain or aircraft into a Digital COMBAT simulation totally eludes me....(except that it might be a quick income generator if it's based on work ED already had 'lying around' so to speak - it may hopefully allow them to channel more resources into 'proper' DCS releases in future?????)

I guess the one big hope is that P51 doesn't delay the 'parallel' projects much (FC3 and DCS Fast Mover).

i would enjoy the P-51 as long as i got a FW190 to fly against . wwll , style..

as alot of us where disappointed with Cliffs of Dover ..

Couldnt' agree more with the OP - the logic of releasing the P51 model without any era-specific terrain or aircraft into a Digital COMBAT simulation totally eludes me....(except that it might be a quick income generator if it's based on work ED already had 'lying around' so to speak - it may hopefully allow them to channel more resources into 'proper' DCS releases in future?????)

 

I guess the one big hope is that P51 doesn't delay the 'parallel' projects much (FC3 and DCS Fast Mover).

Think of the FLYING LEGENDS aspect of the series as the name suggests. A sort of a tribute (whereby the player gets to fly what could possibly be the greatest modeling/simulated P51 virtual plane every made) of some of the airframes that made an impact historically (the pony is not everybody's favorite, but getting an airframe everybody loves unanimously is impossible). It is a popular plane and bam, TFC has one in their collection so.....

There is no big question either, it's been stated multiple times that the P51 project won't delay the modern fighter. If you want to apply logic to that statement than you could argue there are WAY more people looking for the next modern fighter than a P51 in this community...so commercially it doesn't make sense...but resources are obviously there so BAM, we're getting a P51 as well :pilotfly:.

I don't think Flying Legends is attempting to be the next WWII simulator, but a project where we get the opportunity to fly some cool historical planes (outside of timeframe and world surrounding) and guess what, we get to fight each other in them. (Unlike FSX).

Anyway no disrespect intended...I'm not trying to convince you to love the idea, that's clearly within your own right. Just maybe look at it a bit differently?

Think of the FLYING LEGENDS aspect of the series as the name suggests. A sort of a tribute (whereby the player gets to fly what could possibly be the greatest modeling/simulated P51 virtual plane every made) of some of the airframes that made an impact historically (the pony is not everybody's favorite, but getting an airframe everybody loves unanimously is impossible). It is a popular plane and bam, TFC has one in their collection so.....

 

There is no big question either, it's been stated multiple times that the P51 project won't delay the modern fighter. If you want to apply logic to that statement than you could argue there are WAY more people looking for the next modern fighter than a P51 in this community...so commercially it doesn't make sense...but resources are obviously there so BAM, we're getting a P51 as well :pilotfly:.

 

I don't think Flying Legends is attempting to be the next WWII simulator, but a project where we get the opportunity to fly some cool historical planes (outside of timeframe and world surrounding) and guess what, we get to fight each other in them. (Unlike FSX).

 

Anyway no disrespect intended...I'm not trying to convince you to love the idea, that's clearly within your own right. Just maybe look at it a bit differently?

I totally understand and respect your perspective, however as the OP mentions and you further explain, what we are getting in P51 is essentially a pure simulator, i.e. a plane to fly around in and that's it, whereas customers of the DCS series are accustomed to, and have an insatiable demand for, authentic combat missions in an engrossing real-world setting, of which the high-fidelity airframe of A10C or BS forms the central, but not the only part.

I appreciate your optimism that P51 is just a bonus and won't delay the next major modern-era release(s), and as a massive DCS fan I really hope you're right. I guess that P51 came so far out of left-field for me (and seemingly for many others) that it has severely disoriented my sense of ED's priorities and direction, that's all.

.....whereas customers of the DCS series are accustomed to, and have an insatiable demand for, authentic combat missions in an engrossing real-world setting, of which the high-fidelity airframe of A10C or BS forms the central, but not the only part....

There's a reason it's called Digital Combat Simulator as opposed to Digital Modern Combat Simulator.

There are very few, if any, authentic combat missions floating about: There is nothing real in A10's floating about plinking T-80's, nor Kamovs plinking Bradleys and the like. It's what we as individuals tend to make of a particular matter, which is why I always find it particularly strange that one's particular sense of reality can be bent to conform with a specific set of circumstances but refuse to be bent when confronted with another. Cannot please everyone - that's a given :)

 

There are very few, if any, authentic combat missions floating about

Just fly On Station, if it breaks it becomes the most realistic mission ever created. You fly around in circles for hours waiting for tasking that wont come. :pilotfly:

Imho there are more P-51's flying today than there are Su-25T's. So there really is nothing unrealistic about modelling a P-51D for DCS.

that logic doesn't make any sense at all. there are also more 747s flying today than there are globemasters. lets include it?

...there are also more 747s flying today than there are globemasters. lets include it?

And 747 relates to Combat how?

the p51 seen much combat lately?

even then, lets change 747 to a combat plane like b-25, an air show plane like the p-51. the logic is still just as awful, and the argument, nonexistent.

the p51 seen much combat lately?

 

Since when has time-frame been relevant in the Digital Combat Simulator series?

I think the logic is very sound: DCS is an environment where you can model air combat. Arguably, the P-51D has seen more combat than many of the aircraft currently modelled. It is a sensible what-if scenario to fly and fight with an accurately modelled P-51D in DCS, just as flying the A-10C or Ka-50 in combat over the Caucasus is a sensible what-if scenario.

And then again: let's wait and try it out?

lets go back to his original claim that there are more p-51s flying today than su-25s. first of all this is wrong in many ways, but lets lets imagine that it's true, and that a good reason for p-51 to be included is because the su-25 which is in the game, is "no longer used".

well, i can throw out a random ww2 combat plane that is a frequent participant in air shows and then say it's a good idea to include it because the ka-50 hasn't been used for decades, much longer than the su-25.

it isn't logic and it isn't a real argument. and i regret actually needing to explain it. thanks.

I think the logic is very sound: DCS is an environment where you can model air combat. Arguably, the P-51D has seen more combat than many of the aircraft currently modelled. It is a sensible what-if scenario to fly and fight with an accurately modelled P-51D in DCS, just as flying the A-10C or Ka-50 in combat over the Caucasus is a sensible what-if scenario.

And then again: let's wait and try it out?

by that logic, any combat plane should be possible, no? if that's your view, i have no problem with that. you should have just said that at the beginning instead of that weird nonsensical logic you employed with the comparison with the su-25.

by that logic, any combat plane should be possible, no

That is common cause, as mentioned in the F.A.Q.

we get to fight each other in them. (Unlike FSX).

guess you never heard of VRS TacPack the first true single and multi-player combat simulatation modification for FSX.

http://www.vrsimulations.com/tacpack.htm

A statement to be ment in general.

I am with most of the people here that I´d would like to see a F-18 rather than the P-51. But on the other side it has already been stated enough that the REAL next DCS Module is been developed in parallel, so there is absolutely no reason to worry about the Mustang.

Everybody who feels responsible to complain about that should rather consider to buy each single module to support ED instead on holding a boycott against ED. Keep in mind, although DCS is almost 5 years old, it´s still in childs shoes and simply needs its time to grow (A 5 year old child is far away from having adult properties).

Although I am actually an impatient person and cant wait to get the next Aircraft, patients seems to be the only way we have.

Nontheless I´d like to please ED to reconsider the information politics and may be soften them here and there a little.

the p51 seen much combat lately?

T-Frog ever seen combat? :P

by that logic, any combat plane should be possible, no?

Exactly!

Here's a snippet from the FAQ (link in my sig):

Q: How is the P-51 supposed to fit into DCS? This makes no sense to me.

A: DCS is an open simulation environment, not confined to any one era, level of fidelity, or 1st party development. In the future 1st and 3rd parties may add all sorts of different units ranging from gliders to X-51s.

You don't have any reasonable cause to believe that every single DCS thing that'll ever be released will be something that you like and want - but that doesn't matter, since no-one is forcing you to buy everything. Like a plane? Buy it. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

And of course, the big irony is that people said exactly the same thing about the Black Shark. "Why a helicopter? How does that work? This is a JET sim!" etcetera. But now, the role of the Black Shark in the DCS universe is not contested.

well, i can throw out a random ww2 combat plane that is a frequent participant in air shows and then say it's a good idea to include it because the ka-50 hasn't been used for decades, much longer than the su-25.

What you are failing to understand is exactly what the FAQ already responds to. Also, it's not "decades" since the Ka-50 saw combat action, and the T-Frog never saw combat action. The A-Frog, yes. T-Frog, no. (AFAIK, at least.) But the big point anyhow is that this doesn't matter. Would a simulation of the JAS-39C have been kosher before libya? Since recall, before that, the only "combat" the Gripen had seen (any model Gripen even) was Red Flags. Or how about JA-37's? They never was combat.

Does not change a few things:

a) A simulation of them would be interesting.

b) Not everyone would be thrilled.

The above goes for the P-51, the JAS-39, the A-10C, the F-15, the F-18 etcetera etcetera. (F-18 is a nice example - a lot of people are begging for an F-18C, but how would poor old Frostiken react if/when it's actually announced? :D )