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Reworked Cockpit Views with proper Neck


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PeterP explains that in his movie just a little above in this page:

 

 

To overcome the distortion you need to give up on some FOV... reduce it in server.lua and snapviews.lua

 

 

Interesting that that is being said... considering, apparently, the "looking into the bottom of a bowl" (fishbowl) was wrong :music_whistling:

 

The bit to be careful of, is having the monitor fill too much of the real world sightline (which, by the way is around 170 degrees, not 60), is that it can cause the user to get giddy, suffer headache and throw their spatial awareness out of kilter. It does this by affecting the user's realworld peripheral vision.

 

 

That's the main culprit of your problem , your lack in understanding and imagination prevents you to realise that one view-system are your own eyes and the second is the one of the graphic-engine.

...and both have to be synchronised to get a distortion-less and natural image .

 

how can you sit there and say what you have in the above, when you suggest distortion rectifying software has to be used?

How can you also say that when the real world eyes are a "two point view" (bi-ocular) and in game is simply a "one point" (mon-ocular)?

 

...

 

whatever - the rest of your bla-bla isn't worth mentioning at all. Your comments are ridiculous and would normally make me laugh, but the knowing that there is a sad personal tragedy behind it prevents this.

 

I did more than you can expect to explain it to you - but now it's GAME OVER.

 

Search some help.

 

And now stop wasting someone's time and get out of here.

 

I think laughable (to use you wording) is the attempt (images) you made of trying to make out that a computer monitor comprised a screen and separate (and variably optically) projector... certainly very imaginative.

as for the other... well, you're sol there


Edited by Wolf Rider

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Just to remind you about the facts and to show how you twist up wordings and meanings:

how can you sit there and say what you have in the above, when you suggest distortion rectifying software has to be used?

 

This is what I said about image warping software :

 

(...)

 

 

BTW: When you put on a 90° FOV in the sim but your monitor in front of you only covers 40° of your real view , the image gets stretched more and more to the sides.

 

This is a optical law - its like looking at a photo - you are watching a projection of a camera that hasn't the same parameters(position/FOV) as your eyes. When you tilt a photo in your hands it also gets distorted...- there isn't much you can do about it.

 

Solution:

 

A) Get a display/projection that covers a greater FOV in front of you

B) Move your head towards the monitor - so it covers your real FOV and it is matching what you have set-up in the sim

C) Get a real-time image warping software that counteracts it - but this will also smaller the usable Pixels/space on your monitor - as you have to 'push the boarders in' to counteract it. - so you end up with a smaller real FOV and a 'fish-bowl' effect - this form of warping is only working satisfying when using spherical/cylindric projections.

 

 

 

How can you also say that when the real world eyes are a "two point view" (bi-ocular) and in game is simply a "one point" (mon-ocular)?

 

Because it's the same when you use a stereoscopic plug-in. I didn't brought it in because I thought it is more than obvious. Well, seems that it isn't for you.

Looking at it with one or both eyes doesn't change anything . The problems will be the same. Tip : Close one EYE while looking at your monitor ... (I hope you have eyes..., I'm really not sure about it any more and I get more and more the impression that you reading my explanations via a Braille-keyboard and miss important things in the vid and drawings...)

 

See - you have a big problem with understanding, imagination and analysing the consequences.

That's not my problem - Its yours ! - so stop trying to make it one of mine.

I'm not responsible for it.

You can go on and pretend that I'm wrong as much as you can... - but it won't change the facts.

 

I don't care If you really think that you are right... (BTW : Right about what ?!? ...Up to now you didn't even gave one plausible explanation why I'm wrong and how it really is...)

So please stop to embarrass your self in public by showcasing that you are very short-minded - this is the last advise I can give to you !

 

(BTW - you are the talk of the day in my office among some of my workmates ... some of them with a high degree in mathematics and physics. So whatever you want to provoke with your crud 'thesis' - you are at least entertaining some people in a more than questionable way. )

 

 

EDIT: No need to reply - I won't be able to read it and respond anyway.


Edited by PeterP
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:sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:

 

Pls Guys, stop this..., back to topic..

 

PeterP, your work is awesome!!, that's all we have to say here...

 

Greetings...

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You guys can also take that ego-powerstruggle to the Private Msg realm, you know and leave this thread for actual discussion of the mod itself. *shrug*

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

 

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Hello,

 

For saving your view after the modifications it's "RAlt+Num0"...

 

Bye, Skull.

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Thanks - Fixed

 

Things like this happen when you read something over 100 times and you think you must have done it right because you don't really think anymore when you use these key-presses...

 

Keep reports like this coming!

I will finalize additional changes up to the weekend and than I will upload a somewhat 'final' version to ED's user-files section.

And when I placed the files once there it is not a easy and quick fileswap to make changes - all files needs administrator approval from a moderator - so a change can take up to some days until it's avavibale again.

 

That's the main culprit why I keep uploading ReleaseCandidates.

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Last Call !

 

If you have any issues - name them now.

 

I'm putting the files for the ED-user-files-section together.

And yes, it will have a "Strapped pilot with no compromise" alternative version with reduced movement limit depending on aircraft-seat/restraint system.


Edited by PeterP

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PeterP, don't waste your time trying to explain things to people who are (knowingly or not) trolls.

 

I have had similar un-constructive "discussions" in the past - every time you run through your logic of one issue, he ignores it and moves on to something else, never acknowledging anything.

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Its called dementia!

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Hi PeterP, thanks again for your work on this mod - it just makes looking out the windows a lot easier. I don't understand why this isn't implemented in DCS World as default (but this is of course just one of the things that would make the sim better). In some regards ED seems horrible inert (what is up with all the bugs in the KA-50 that is never fixed - is this module dead for ED?).

 

While everything works and is readily understandable two minor things:

  • Typo: content not contend ;-)
  • Did not find the all-planes mission in this thread or the archive for download.

Please fix the KA-50 bugs :-)

 

Black Shark: Controller profile & setup, TrackIR profile, pit.

Warthog HOTAS: Lubing the stick and extending the stick.

Posts on howto customize switches in DCS &

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Must-have mods for DCS World and KA-50 (mostly JSGME).

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Hi PeterP, thanks again for your work on this mod - it just makes looking out the windows a lot easier. I don't understand why this isn't implemented in DCS World as default (but this is of course just one of the things that would make the sim better). In some regards ED seems horrible inert (what is up with all the bugs in the KA-50 that is never fixed - is this module dead for ED?).

 

My thoughts about the 'Why?'

 

Well, I think ED uses much shorter distances to not confuse the (new)users so much because the Hud will be quickly hidden when you move your head around - and it's a left over of FC2 , that hadn't 6DOF - but its clearly wrong and not what is present in the real world - and when you once have seen a working real HUD you quickly understand . But this doesn't explain at all why they are so different for each cockpit...

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...7&postcount=17

 

Read my personal notes on this matter here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1588371#post1588371

 

 

...

 

 

Further... :

 

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1739240#post1739240

 

Well, the HUD on its own is a whole different matter and changing the size afterwards is a very complicated thing once it is installed and 'calibrated' in the virtual cockpit....

Read on and follow the links to get a Idea:

Demo for a HUD that works in stereoscopic 3D

So things that first seems very simple can get very complicated in the end - just because you tried to 'cheat' and make simplification in the design-phase...

 

I personally still believe that ED choose to make the HUD a little bigger than in real - just to keep readability on low-res Screens. But that is something that now really starts to make huge problems once you want to keep things as real as it can . This would probably a very different case if they choose a different eye/neck position from the start.

>>>See all the "how to resize the HUD ?!" threads.

(just use the search function - can't list them all - they just pooping out like mushrooms in a misty morning...)

ED just better gave this function to the user instead twisting up the HUD size :

>>> Big HUD Font for A-10C (...sorry , I'm distracting again)

 

 

About the 16cm...

Well its maybe not the right value in all occasions as your neck is not a static parameter and can vastly change within seconds...

We have disused this already (and probably do it again... wink.gif):

>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1656534&postcount=62

 

But as long the neck is only a static thing in DCS we have to set it to something like the average of possible distances...

 

-That's the main reason why I want to "rewrite" the server.lua to set global values and make it easy to change them all at once by editing a single value - so noone is forced to use what feels right for me.

I have to admit:

...maybe I'm also just barking to the wrong moon...and Naturalpoint-TrackIR is the culprit because their interface doesn't uses relative translations of your eye-position...

 

But writing to Naturalpoint about software-design failures is like writing to Santa and asking for peace on earth ... I tried both - just watch the next news in the TV to see what I got instead.

 

While everything works and is readily understandable two minor things:

  • Typo: content not contend ;-)
  • Did not find the all-planes mission in this thread or the archive for download.

Typos are fixed, thanks

 

I removed the mission during the latest update to stay under 10mb and load it directly up in this forum , but this failed and I loaded it up to Mediafire - but didn't repacked it again. Well , the mission is nothing fancy - its all planes/modules set as client - so its easy to hop in and out in each cockpit to check the view-positions without reloading again. (see attached)

 

Mission will be included in the user-files upload.

 

- and sorry for the delay , but right now this: » KNEEBOARD Export for 'multimonitorsetup.lua' in all modules - DCS 1.2.4 has the highest priority on my list - and it still needs some retouch , so I dedicate my free-time first on this until I'm satisfied , than I will look again at the view-positions again. And to be honest : I just needed a break from all this "View" stuff ;):)

All planes-modules test.miz


Edited by PeterP

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I know, thats why I drew this...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1776989&postcount=17

 

Have you seen it? :D

 

Hahaha :thumbup:

Please fix the KA-50 bugs :-)

 

Black Shark: Controller profile & setup, TrackIR profile, pit.

Warthog HOTAS: Lubing the stick and extending the stick.

Posts on howto customize switches in DCS &

.

Must-have mods for DCS World and KA-50 (mostly JSGME).

Casual couch pilot, watching capped.tv...

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Great work on this mod Peter!

 

I've just customised my F-15 and A-10C views and they work perfect.

I was able to slightly cheat by using TrackIR and pausing/unpausing, and saving the view to customise it how I wanted.

 

Thanks for your hard work on this one. :thumbup:

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JSGME

 

Can someone please help me,I have downloaded this mod and want to use version A, (no f3 or huey)....What is the procedure to make it work in JSGME ?The only mods I have in JSGME now were already set up up for it....Thanks for any help.

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no "fits all" JMSG install possible as files have to be placed into your saved-games path behind your >your user name< directory - so you have to do it your own , the JSGM readme provides everything you want to know.

 

Its basically recreating the file-path going up to where you have placed your Jsgme exe.

 

Example: you have placed your JSGME in H:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\...

 

You have to place the files of your chosen flavour in a 'DCS world' folder - but you will have to do it again for the saved-games path...

 

again: Read the read-me/help files of JSGME.

 

@ _Dredd

Thanks - that's what I want to hear! ;):)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Peter

 

I love the mod and how the head is positioned for viewing the cockpit especially the control panels on the left and right.. however I cant see the top of the HUD and when I go into a dive for strafing the gun pipper is disappearing.

 

Is there a way to keep the head position and keep the HUD view from default. Is so could you please explain to me how I change the settings.

 

Many thanks

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Hi Peter

 

I love the mod and how the head is positioned for viewing the cockpit especially the control panels on the left and right.. however I cant see the top of the HUD and when I go into a dive for strafing the gun pipper is disappearing.

 

Is there a way to keep the head position and keep the HUD view from default. Is so could you please explain to me how I change the settings.

 

Many thanks

 

 

Read the readme again and this post:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...7&postcount=17

 

edit: Sorry - I'm short at time. But it is really already covered X times in this thread.


Edited by PeterP

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Peter, you have no idea of the straining I gave to my neck just to look at the fuselage tank!!! Thanks a million!

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Peter, you have no idea of the straining I gave to my neck just to look at the fuselage tank!!! Thanks a million!

 

Haha!

That was exactly my starting point when I decided to develop this mod!

- I was also first mad at the engineers of the P-51D that have placed the indicators at a absulute inconvenient position... - than I realised that the cockpit is fine and somewhat ergonomic ,

but your Neck/Head dimension is not fitting... and you can find examples like this an all 6DOF cockpits when you look closely at the cockpit design - not to be able to have a look at the radio in the A-10C , when the throttles are in idle, is one of the most prominent issue you have if you use the default view... but if you use this mod, almost everything makes sense.

 

...I feel very sorry for everyone that is still using the default view.


Edited by PeterP

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Ok I have finally managed to get a view I'm happy with but my previous set of custom snapview do not work whenever I press numpad 1 - 6 nothing happens at all, have they been disabled somehow.

 

How can I import my custom save of the snapviews file and get it to work

 

thanks

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A) Most easy way:

Copy your old SnapViews.lua (you made a backup , right?!) into your C:\Users\>YOUR USERNAME<\Saved Games\\DCS\Config\View and save only a New Default cockpit view - and readjust the snapview if necessary. >>> read post#3 for explanations why they don't match any more.

 

B) A little more time consuming:

Leave the files as they are and save absulute new snap-views from scratch.

>>> Here is a "HowTo" >>> http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Snap_views

 

C) the crazy "I want it hard" way:

Edit your C:\Users\>YOUR USERNAME<\Saved Games\\DCS\Config\View\SnapViews.lua manually and copy over the snapviews that you want to keep and edit them also ... - use the forum search for a 'how to' - a great fraction of DCS users do it still that way ...


Edited by PeterP

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