SPI Precision

Also i dunno if u read one of my previous comments but a 10 digit MGRS grid designates a square of 10m X 10m.

Not quite, as far as I know: 4QFJ 12345 67890 .......precision level 1 m.

exactly, 10 digits=1 meter... says it in the manual

well, the topic is kinda revolving around sending SPI's or relaying targets to other aircraft, so markpoints + tasking work better. Also i dunno if u read one of my previous comments but a 10 digit MGRS grid designates a square of 10m X 10m. and that's the amount of digits that the TAD sends/receives.

what do you mean by markpoints + tasking? :cry:

It's pretty easy, target tasking messages in DCS don't transfer elevation data (a bug) so the received point will be at MSL. Either copy the received point to a waypoint (TAD hook and hit OSB 16), which will have the correct elevation, or use the SPI broadcast function of SADL.

Good info, thanks! :thumbup:

Do you know if this applies only to taskings in MP between A-10Cs or also to JTAC taskings?

I was about to say I never noticed JTAC tasking points to be far off, but then I usually punch in the MGRS coords and create a new waypoint via CDU long before I receive anything via SADL, so I wouldn't know whether or not they're off. It'd just be good to know in case this comes up in the future.

based on these answers i can say that if i set a spi very high then it will be off by a lot when sending it right? cause if all of this is true then the higher the spi is in regards to the predefined elevation the bigger the error will be when you send the spi.

If I understand correctly, you are absolutely correct. But I haven't tried that yet.

The last time I sent and received targets via SADL in MP was a couple weeks ago, trying to figure out the procedures and how to do it efficiently. But we were over flat terrain near the cost so there wouldn't be much deviation in any case.

sniped with the 10-digit grid, my bad :p

A-10 pilots rely on their sights first before relying on SOIs. Of course nothing could be further from the truth.

Lol, A-10 pilots cannot be expected to be seen using such archaic equipment as eyeballs, that's not cool enough. It's in the manual you know, under the sub heading of "How to always look cool when piloting your Hog". I wish people would read the damn manual once in a while.:)

Lol, A-10 pilots cannot be expected to be seen using such archaic equipment as eyeballs, that's not cool enough. It's in the manual you know, under the sub heading of "How to always look cool when piloting your Hog". I wish people would read the damn manual once in a while.:)

What are you talking about... You always look cool when you're in The Hog :music_whistling: by default.

JohnnyQ - markpoints + tasking - see page 321 of the manual.

Basically creating markpoint on target and sending its coordinates or just making the target your SPI and using the procedure described in the manual.

Hi, resurrecting the thread here! lol

I noticed that JTAC gives 6 coordinates, and it gives 100 meters presicion which is very poor for targeting. A full coordinate is 10 digits and an 8 digits might be useful as well. But definitely not 6 digits. :(

Ideas?

4Q .....................GZD only, precision level 6° × 8° (in most cases)

4QFJ ...................GZD and 100 km Grid Square ID, precision level 100 km

4QFJ 1 6 ...............precision level 10 km

4QFJ 12 67 .............precision level 1 km

4QFJ 123 678 ...........precision level 100 m

4QFJ 1234 6789 .........precision level 10 m

4QFJ 12345 67890 .......precision level 1 m

A 6 digit grid is the normal precision given for a bomb on target engagement, which are most JTAC/FAC(A) controlled engagements. 10 digit grids would only be given for bomb on coordinate attacks, and would be specified in advance.

Within 100m should be more than close enough to get your eyes onto the target, although that said the AI JTAC doesn't do talk ons to build on the grid.

as far as everyone commented here more than 10m off the target is not acceptable.

So you can't spot a group of vehicles, unless you're cued to within a single vehicle's length of said group of vehicles?

So you can't spot a group of vehicles, unless you're cued to within a single vehicle's length of said group of vehicles?

Correct. :P

nice mocking...

im just trying to get help, yes i can spot them, but thats not the point, i was asking about a full coordinate for better precision

He explained that 6 digit grids are standard for Bomb on Target attacks. 10 digit grids are only used for Bomb on Coordinate attacks.

The difference is that the first type of delivery is a situation where the coordinate is merely there to guide you to visual acquisition of the target. Your release of the weapon therefore is exclusively based on your ability to spot the target and accurately engage it visually or through the use of visual sensors*.

The latter type of delivery is based on you releasing your bomb on the specific coordinate and you do not need to have a visual sighting of the target or base your release on that.

As far as everyone's contention that 10m is the only accurate standard acceptable that would only be true if you only ever did BoC attacks and never BoT attacks.

*re. visual sensors I can't be absolutely certain so someone can correct me

nice mocking...

 

im just trying to get help, yes i can spot them, but thats not the point, i was asking about a full coordinate for better precision

See what Eddie said (Comment #36): Giving 6-digit coordinates is the standard procedure for a standard attack. The only purpose here is to make you find the target. It is NOT intended to provide accurate attack coordinates. Again: You're just supposed to find the target based on the given 6-digit coordinates, not attack it. You then have to visually aquire your target.

10-digit coordinates will be given for attacks on coordinates which is usally used against static installations. A common use are tomahawk attacks from ships off the coast or high altitude bomb attacks by bombers such as the B-2.

Edit: sniped by P*Funk

and why would the tasking option between ac be so off the target? it is a 10 digit one

and why would the tasking option between ac be so off the target? it is a 10 digit one

In this very thread...............

?

 

It's pretty easy, target tasking messages in DCS don't transfer elevation data (a bug) so the received point will be at MSL. Either copy the received point to a waypoint (TAD hook and hit OSB 16), which will have the correct elevation, or use the SPI broadcast function of SADL.

i know, but making a markpoint on the target or creating a waypoint on the tad and then send it is still sending a task! so the "bug" should be the same if the problem is tassking like you said

SPI broadcasting is not the same as using the tasking function.

I didnt say anything about SPI Broadcasting...

Let's try again.

Making a markpoint on the target or creating a waypoint on the tad and then send it is still sending a task! so the "bug" should be the same if the problem is tasking like you said.

I think what Eddie was saying actually above is that you can overcome the tasking bug by remaking the received tasking waypoint, ie. after the receiver gets it not before the transmitter sends it, because the computer will then redetermine the coordinate's position based on the elevation database. Its a work around thats based on the fact that the TAD hook create new waypoint functionality is not bugged while the tasking is.

The alternative is to not send tasking but broadcast a SPI instead.

Either way it bypasses the bug.

This happens I guess:

 

This very problem is the reason why you were off, the parallax error for the terrain can be compensated very accurately by the laser, but there is a second part to it: The SPI position is not compensated for the parallax error of looking at the target and not at the ground it stands on, so If you see a truck and you point your TGP at its center(probably a few feet over the ground), your TGP is actually looking through the vehicle at the ground behind it and will put your SPI, which is just a ground coordinate, somewhere behind the target you're looking at(or through:music_whistling:). This is also the reason the SPI in the OP's example was "off", they were probably far away from the target they were marking(as they were marking a SAM which you don't want to be close to) so the angle at wich he was marking the target was very shallow which leads to the SPI being off the intended target.

AFAIK DLing the SPI through TAD or through MSG-page is equally accurate and has a very very low error (less than 1m)

So to mark targets accurately from afar: Look at the point where the target and the ground intersect and use your laser while setting the SPI

Problem solved?:pilotfly: