How come my mk-82 / mk-84 never hits targets?

When engaging ground targets. Be it

Soft targets infantry or tanks , And

My Piper is on The target my mk82/84 never hits the target.

Whats The trick? I dropped using then

All together And only use clusterbombs for ground targets.

winds? Did you adjust LASTE wind page? It is important with unguided munitions.

Can you post a track of your attempt?

Just so you know, unguided munitions need a very big speed by the time you pickle, preferably 325 kts and above. Also the steeper your dive, the more accurate you become because the curve is more linear and equally important is not to do any sort of movements by rollout, specially rolls and yaws.

Why don't you just use CCIP and do it manually?

i know CCRP is more comfortable and better against AAA but give it a try

or try it with a targeting pod, may helps you a bit

and sorry i don't know how to drop in CCRP without tgp

If you are able to post a track file, it would be most helpful to see what you are doing on the bomb runs. Unguided bombs aren't much use against some armored targets as the don't have splash damage yet, that should be coming in the 1.5 update. Common causes for misses with unguided bombs would be side-slip of the aircraft at the moment of release, check that your ball is centered, and crosswinds have a very large affect on unguided bombs, the higher you release the the further they are able to drift. Also making sure your wings are level, goes with making sure your ball is centered and not slipping. Hope this helps... I'm sure there may be several other things I'm missing, but those are the common ones I believe.

Good Hunting! Breeze:pilotfly::joystick: :thumbup:

Wind and/or lack of practice. I was doing a mission last night and I entered in the wind data in the LASTE wind page, I had two DIRECT hits with CCRP and Mk82s on armored targets from 4000 and 7000 ft AGL, I was very happy with those passes.

I don't think LASTE wind page is at all important for hitting ground targets with iron bombs and I've never buggered with that page and had a pretty good hit rate while doing it regularly, thats with wind components active on the server.

A few points though:

-CCIP is as a rule more accurate than CCRP with unguided munitions

-Steeper dive angles are inherently more accurate than shallow dive angles with unguided munitions

-Single bombs are almost never used, with ripples of at least 2 in singles release being the minimum for hitting a single target

-Against group targets the type of release pattern depends on the desired effect

-Player error is likely accountable for almost all misses with standard Mk 82s in CCIP mode assuming no system errors or extreme wind*

-CCIP will make a bad pass work but accurate hits are still reliant on flying a mathematically correct pattern with as little deviation as possible

In short the systems make up for error to allow for higher accuracy and more reliable use of ordnance, they do not make up for totally woeful form and lack of technique. CCIP bombing is probably the one thing that most players will never get right because its the one thing that really only works well when you have a skill that goes well beyond understanding switchology and interface design. You can learn to drop a JDAM in a few minutes but just getting a small part of a CCIP bombing delivery barely well enough to start dropping bombs reliably can take days or weeks and the skill decays much more aggressively than remembering how to work the HOTAS.

For reference:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=117350

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=99688

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=211

*Mk 82AIR is however totally borked and will not hit accurately as it would in real life

To add another reference to go with PFunk's post.

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/showthread.php?3131-Air-to-Surface-Weapon-Delivery-Methods

When engaging ground targets. Be it

Soft targets infantry or tanks , And

My Piper is on The target my mk82/84 never hits the target.

Whats The trick? I dropped using then

All together And only use clusterbombs for ground targets.

You may want to take a look at ExessiveHeadspaces' Video on the TGP.

To add another reference to go with PFunk's post.

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/showthread.php?3131-Air-to-Surface-Weapon-Delivery-Methods

requires registration

requires registration

It's worth it :thumbup:

-Single bombs are almost never used with ripples of at least 2 in singles release being the minimum for hitting a single target

What do you mean by this?

Why don't you just use CCIP and do it manually?

 

i know CCRP is more comfortable and better against AAA but give it a try

 

or try it with a targeting pod, may helps you a bit

 

and sorry i don't know how to drop in CCRP without tgp

Where did the OP say he used CCRP in his post?

Fairly certain P*Funk means that you always drop them as multiple never as single, e.g. ripple 2, 75ft spacing. If you see the setting in the Battle Book all the settings are always 2 or 6.

Battle Book: http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=211

Cheers

Hans

I faced the same problems some time ago and inspired by this thread read the links above and tried it yesterday - awesome! Loaded as many Mk82 as possible, placed a line of 40 trucks in a row and...with exception of one run ALWAYS destroyed at least one truck. :gun_sniper:

Seems to be ONLY a matter of how to roll-in - I suspect that CCIP is precise enough to use only one bomb instead of two as suggested somewhere.

Thanks for this thread - learned some more details (and will try some variantions, soon) :joystick:

Hi,

Interesting "Waypoints in the cockpit" to deliver unguided bombs with MAN REL by Recon Stewart

I am still working on the perfect roll in/out - but it works

DCS - A10c - Advanced Flight Training Qualification - 08 - A/G Unguided Bomb Employment

Minute 10:00 / 16:00

476th vFG - MQT - 04 - Unguided Munition Employment

Wind actually has a marked effect on the accuracy of dumb bombs. The LASTE system constantly corrects for the wind measured at your current location, but the bomb will fall though different wind layers with different properties.

With the right correction it's possible to get pin-point accuracy with dumb bombs. Whether or not it's realistic to have such detailed wind information in real life, it works wonders in the sim.

See this write-up I did a while back and check out the difference between the two tracks I posted:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=124711

Fairly certain P*Funk means that you always drop them as multiple never as single, e.g. ripple 2, 75ft spacing.

Precisely. One comma probably coulda avoided the confusion. :helpsmilie:

I suspect that CCIP is precise enough to use only one bomb instead of two as suggested somewhere

From a practical perspective not really, not for combat and reliability sake. I know there are training standards for acceptable deviation of a bomb from a target based on the type of delivery and release altitude in real life in CCIP. I'm pretty sure the acceptable deviation would make a single bomb strike much less reliable a hit, especially when you consider the various types of delivery that will inevitably affect the accuracy too (shallow versus steep, high release versus low).

So yes CCIP is very accurate on the whole but being perfect is a challenging proposition and the whole reason you have aides like this is to assist the pilot so that he doesn't have to be perfect to be marginally effective. You also have to consider the tactical realities that inform the pilot's decisions and dropping two bombs instead of one to greatly increase the likelihood of good effects on target means that pilot can make fewer attacks overall and the golden rule (in real life if not in DCS) is that the fewer attacks over the same target area you can make the better. Real human beings are good at pattern recognition and by the second or third attack the shock of surprise if it even existed is well worn off. This is anecdotally confirmed in one of the stories in A-10s over Kosovo.

In short, losing an airframe is almost never considered worth the cost of putting some bombs on a target. Every bombing attack is a risk to the airframe. Doing fewer attacks therefore maximizes the benefit to the risk and dropping more bombs per attack helps reduce the number of reattacks a proficient pilot would need to make. CCIP was an evolution that allowed the pilot to minimize the number of bombs he needs to drop to maximize his risk equation based on various tactical considerations (same with LGBs). Its why you don't need tactical aircraft that carry dozens of dumb bombs anymore and can do some serious damage with only 4 or 6 if you're good at what you do.

Wait that wasn't really shorter... damn it, thats the P*Funk hallmark.

Anyway, as I said release pattern is based on desired effect so you could release 2 or 4 or 6 or 3 even. Plinking single targets with individual bombs however (as I understand it) is entirely the domain of the PGM, but they're no fun are they.

From a practical perspective not really, not for combat and reliability sake. I know there are training standards for acceptable deviation of a bomb from a target based on the type of delivery and release altitude in real life in CCIP. I'm pretty sure the acceptable deviation would make a single bomb strike much less reliable a hit, especially when you consider the various types of delivery that will inevitably affect the accuracy too (shallow versus steep, high release versus low).

...

Well - sure! ;) What I wanted to say is that in this ideal training area the CCIP was much more precise than I thought/experienced before - at least under my (easy!) training conditions - only trucks, no hostile fire, no wind, low release point ...

Yes, and I half knew thats what you meant, but I can't help myself when I see an opportunity to illustrate what I consider to be a useful point.

And using singles in training is perfectly valid since you don't care about effect on target and you're mostly worried about practicing the methodology and validating your sight picture during the dive. I would only caution people not to consider sniping a tank with a single Mk 82 any kind of sensible plan.

Make a simple mission with zero wind, and practice on that. Its not hard at all to destroy tanks with a single mk-82. Is it realistic? No, but you will gain confidence and repitition with your technique. Winds affect the bombs quite a bit. CCIP dives of 30 degrees or more will give you the best accuracy.

Once you get the hang of it, you may want to progress to winds.

1. Why use dumb bombs to destroy tanks when you can carry as much PGMs?

2. When using dumb bombs (for example for CAS in low threat AO), try to minimize flight time of the bomb (within the pull out limits of the 'hog) by diving at a maximum angle, maximum speed and a minimal altitude. Also you must set up the LASTE for wind AND temperature. Only that way you can ensure maximum precision with dumb bombs

3. Another option is rippling a lot of dumb bombs or using cluster munitions/SFWs (that will not work with heavy wind though)

1. Why use dumb bombs to destroy tanks when you can carry as much PGMs?

Because its more fun.

1. Why use dumb bombs to destroy tanks when you can carry as much PGMs?

2. When using dumb bombs (for example for CAS in low threat AO), try to minimize flight time of the bomb (within the pull out limits of the 'hog) by diving at a maximum angle, maximum speed and a minimal altitude. Also you must set up the LASTE for wind AND temperature. Only that way you can ensure maximum precision with dumb bombs

3. Another option is rippling a lot of dumb bombs or using cluster munitions/SFWs (that will not work with heavy wind though)

1. It is much more challenging than simply going through a circle in level flight. I think its also a testament of airmanship, since red flag exercises often employ them 33s in CCIP.

Because its more fun.

Okay, I'll take that as a reason :D