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A Plea for View-Export/Multi-head/TH Users.


PeterP

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Several Design flaws, most of them can be easily reproduced in 1.1.2.1 when you use e.g. 1280x768 windowed and the"Camera+LMFCD(on right side)" monitor setting.

 

And I think this need special attention of the QA Team before a final release.

This because DCS:World hit the floor and (this is a wild guess) you are probably preparing a SDK for third-party developers.

And even if you match with the modules the highest standards - there could be some improvements to things you don't notice at a single-head setup. (Some things that are present since the first DCS release)

And I think you are now "grown up" enough for focusing on this! :)

 

Because I fear, when you don't change it Now (or pretty soon)- we will probably see leftovers of it in all upcoming modules....

 

So please read it as open letter to:

Quality Assurance

Valery "USSR_Rik" Khomenok - Lead Tester

Ivan "Frogfoot" Makarov - Testing

Sergey "Foreman" Gusakov - Testing

Michael "Yurcha" Urevich - Testing

Andrey "Andrey Andreevich" Kryutchenko - Localization

 

I tried to write this summary in a way that even my boss would understand what I'm talking of, but if something isn't quite clear - please don't hesitate to ask for further explanation. :)

 

1. When you use a smaller aspect-ratio than 1 you have missing Sea-textures:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=63892&stc=1&d=1331999300

 

 

65.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

>>> More info and workaround for it: paperclip.gif subscribed.gif A-10c 1.1.1.1 water disappears

Edit:

...But, this workaround sadly triggers another bug....

>>> Shallow water doesn't match with coastline

 

 

 

2. When you have additional exports in the right top corner of your whole in-game render resolution you can't use the Communication-menu properly.

Same goes to the resources management window "rearm".

 

This is a very big issue - as it really makes it impossible to use the simulation as intended, as some windows won't be reachable when you have build yourself a pit.

 

This needs urgent attention.

Edit:Partially fixed in 1.2.1 !! Thanks!

 

 

commsmenu.jpg

Screen_120527_091526.jpg

Screen_120522_134021.jpg

 

 

Here are some files and a guide how to fully customize the position of the radio menu:

Click- and Customizable Radio Menu for DCS World

 

>>> More info and workarounds : moving the comms menu / Show mission resources management window / How to move the status bar?

 

 

 

Possible solution: Bind sub menus to the "UIMainView" - like it was done in 1.1.1.1 and/or to which view-port the user wants.

 

 

 

 

3. When you have your Center-view-port not in the same position/resolution as the whole in-game resolution the Sun-glare HDR effect doesn't match up with your In-game render,

It always covers the whole in-game resolution.

 

Screen_120522_084453.jpg

I made a "very high contrast version" of the same image to show you where sun-glare is placed:

highcontrastsunglare.jpg

 

 

 

>>> More info of it:HDR Sun Glare Missalignment Still persistent in 1.1.2.1

 

Possible solution: Bind HDR Sun effect to the Center-view-port and/or to which view-port the user wants.

 

This also influence the over-G/black-out visuals!

 

 

4. The NVG is stretched at the whole in-game resolution. Looks Odd when using Exports.

I can live with the stretching, but it should be centred at the center-view-port.

Screen_120522_133928.jpg

 

more info and a workaround:

>>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1558358#post1558358

 

Possible solution: Bind The focus.png to the center-view-port and/or to which view-port the user wants and use a similar function like this to have the NVG always round in the right aspect:

 

width = screen.height;

height = screen.height;

 

 

Please have also a look at this: NVG-Mask for DCS World 1.2.1

Maybe you get this mod implemented into DCS.

 

 

 

5. Please Enable the "render_purpose.SCREENSPACE_OUTSIDE_COCKPIT," for all exports by default, and switch on the possibility to export them in the appropriate *_init.lua by default.

So Threads like this will have an end:

Exported all my A-10C displays in DCS World - mostly

 

And add this exports to the "MonitorSetup".Lua. - so newbies will have a better time.

BTW: this relates: Annotation in frequently user-changed Files

 

Here is a example how a possible "FIX" can look:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=71831

I can't see any reason why this shouldn't be done by default to all modules.

 

It has unique names for the exports - "ED_A10C_RIGHT_MFCD" instead only "RIGHT_MFCD". As this will get more and more a problem when we get new modules and use different "monitorSetup.lua's" for each module ore even combine them like described here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1466722#post1466722

 

 

Adding it and maintaining the unique export names for each module prevent us some headaches !

 

Edit: Easy Monitor Configurator makes manual edits obsolete and allows you to use only one Monitorsetup across different modules.

 

 

6. This is at a first glance a minor problem but when you use a great aspect ratio the terrain looks sometimes like a desert.

And is really a problem with stand-off weapons usage.

 

 

More info on this: DCS A-10C - How to increase districts visibility distance

 

Possible solution: Add a "Very High for high aspect e.g. Triplehead" view-distance setting - see attached modified "High.lua"

Attached Files lua.gif High.lua

 

 

This relates: Any fix for massive lights? - ED Forums

 

Greater aspect ratio = bigger VASI/PAPI lights

I dredged up this old post which nobody responded to because I too am suffering from these very hard to see VASI/PAPI lights on a 3 screen system. It is difficult to distinguish between the red and the white because the extremely large halo effect makes it all merge together.

 

I remember in FSX this was an issue too, and so somebody there made a replacement Halo texture to address this.

 

Any word on how to go about resolving this issue for Th2go/Eyefinitey/Surround users?

 

 

7. The sun is ridiculous big.

...

Edit : Fixed in 1.2.1

...but now the HDR effect is broken . you only see it when zoomed in unnaturally...

 

And it gets worse when you using a higher resolution /aspect ratio.

14d0ne8.jpg

 

More info on it: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1461140#post1461140

 

 

Again, IRL, the angular diameter of the sun (and moon) is ~0.5 degrees...

 

 

EDIT:

 

And here is a fix for the gigantic Sun!

>>>>http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1526362#post1526362

 

8. Please don't take this as offend:

You advertised with fully TH-compatibility in the BS1 hard-copy.

(It had a coupon for a price-reduced TH2GO unit in it) - I bought a TH2G0 because of this....

>>>> http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/ad/gxm/th2go/blackshark2/

 

 

So please have a look at this too:Triple-head/Multi-Monitor GUI and NVG Fix

And I'm a little disappointed that I had to found this all out my-self.

-never mind- this was part of the fun for me, but:

Please don't make it so hard for upcoming customers that don't have the knowledge or time to dig through the forums! :)

 

Possible solution:

Add a TH-Setting to the "Monitors" drop-down menu, and ditch the misleading "Monitors" naming - Instead name it what it is: Simply "View-ports"

So threads like this will also have an end: "3 monitor" camera...

And don't forget to higher the Max FOV limit of each flyable to something like 140° - so it will be sufficient for a 3x16:9 set-up.

 

 

9. The whole Combined arms interface isn't usable at all when having Multi-monitors enabled.

Biggest problems are the Bino-View and the Map.

 

OK- some will say : "Just use a One monitor setting for CA!"

 

Thanks for the advise! wink.gif but how about jumping between the A-10 and a commander seat?

Should I really put all my hardware in the trash-bin because of this...?!

 

Example:

Bino View with multi-screen Setup

 

Click> attachment.php?attachmentid=68008&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1342024903 < Click

 

Map covering all monitors.

Workaround:

Only workaround up to now is to use SoftTH with DCS -

 

SoftTH has the function to draw all content that is spread among other screens at your main screen by using a hot-key : [AppKey+S]

 

So you can jump in a A-10 and spread everything like usual - and when you change to a commander position - you can bring everything at a single screen without much hassle.

 

Learn more in this thread: SoftTH NEWS

 

 

10. Please add something like this in your manual:

Dummies Guide for the “MonitorSetup.lua“

 

To make clear what this multi-monitor-thingy is all about in DCS.

 

Feel free to copy it as a whole or use portions and /or even edit it.

 

So not all upcoming customers will stand first clueless in the weeds as I did at the beginning of my journey on your train.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

____________________

So ! Ich habe fertig!

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this and visit the links to gather further information/explanations !

 

Please don't do it because I cry out about it so loud... - I'm used to tweak files and stuff to get things working, nothing unusual for me - because I use MultiMonitors since many years....

- please do it for new customers , as today, it is nothing special any more to have more than one monitor at the desk.

 

 

... several people that use a single monitor moan about a "update dance" ...

...can you image what multi-monitor users have to do after a "update"?!

 

 

Some more nasty sentence:

If this is too much work...

Did you ever thought about a "per Monitor fee" ?!

I don't know how this should work - but I would gladly pay 2€ extra per view-port if I can make sure that it works in the end. - it would still be a barging compared to get the hardware to run this!

 

...sorry and never mind. Just trying to be funny...!

edit:

Maybe some of the devs get my wrong and they think that I ask for a entire fix for all of this !....

 

Hey I'm not nuts! - I know that this is impossible for all different kind of monitor settings ....

 

I'm just asking for something like a SDK that allows us to move the different GUI/post-processing items freely around and resize them on our render - so we just can make sure that it will look as nice at our home as in one of your advertisement videos on tube.

 

 

I hope you get my point.

---------------------------------------------

@all

 

If you have a issue that relates to this and you cant find it on my list: please PM me and I will add it to the list (to prevent cluttering) and/or post the links to it similar like I did With a small descriptions (keep in mind Pictures are more worth than thousand words) following this rule:

 

What is the problem?(keep in mind: When it happens also on a single screen, it's not OUR problem! wink.gif)

How does it look?

Where is the related discussion?

How do you think that it can be solved?

And how to reproduce it - when not obvious.

 

- I don't want to discuss everything in detail in this thread -again- as it has been discussed already before!

I just want to have a summary of things that have to be implemented for a easier use of DCS with View-Export/Multi-head/TH Users.

 

Thanks!


Edited by PeterP
Typos, lots of ; and still many more.

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+1 for all of what peterP has said

 

especially No.1 I use a dual screen 1280x1536 aspect ratio is 0.833333333 and the missing sea textures are annoying ( a two viewport camera solves this, but you loose some fps )

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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Great post , Thx pete,:thumbup: pretty much on the money..:helpsmilie:

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Big +1!! There are many of us who have invested a lot of time, effort and money to have some really incredible immersion. Please make sure the features you've introduced that let both multi-monitor, touchscreen and full hardware pits work don't take steps backwards!

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+1 :thumbup:

" any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back, "  W Forbes

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts,"  Winston Churchill

" He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," 

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Very good post, and good work. I don't use multiple viewports, but for the sake of those who do, please listen to this man.

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PeterP is an alarmist. None of this is a problem at all. Besides, it will grow on you after a while.:D

 

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As much as I love that video and I agree that DCS is amazing, I don't believe PeterP is an Alarmist and his intentions are only to improve this already amazing product, so...

 

+1 for all of PeterP's suggestions. Alot of people that pick-up DCS, may be coming from MSFS background where multi-monitor setups are easy-peasy. Sadly it's anything but easy with the DCS series, in it's current form.


Edited by MackTheKnight
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+ 1

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All excellent points by PeterP and me personally No3, 5 & 6 have been bugging me for a while... I think it's time to finally address all these issues... and if I may add one more:

 

There should be new "special" option for each aircaft to be able to sellect and specify monitor configuration and game resolution as not all aircraft have need for secondary monitors (P-51D for example) and others that do don't all have same number of monitors required or their position etc.

 

The HDR glare missalignment is still quite a major bugg on my opinion and there are others (like Districts VIS distance) that are not so bad as they can be adjusted by tweaking lua file)

No longer active in DCS...

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PeterP is an alarmist. None of this is a problem at all. Besides, it will grow on you after a while.:D

 

 

 

Quite true...in a way or another . :D

I was often thinking about what I found amazing the last decades when browsing through some old game packages...

And I have to admit that some of these points can look like talk of the riff-raff if looking from a perspective of a singel-head user.

 

And at the time I got my first TH-setup running with BS I was soo pleased and amazed, even if I had already to fight some bugs, that I thought this couldn't get any better...

...now 5 screens are plastering my simcorner, and the sixth is on approach...:doh:;)

 

... and if I may add one more:

There should be new "special" option for each aircraft to be able to select and specify monitor configuration and game resolution as not all aircraft have need for secondary monitors (P-51D for example) and others that do don't all have same number of monitors required or their position etc.

 

The HDR glare misalignment is still quite a major bug on my opinion and there are others (like Districts VIS distance) that are not so bad as they can be adjusted by tweaking lua file)

 

 

Before ED should implement new stuff they should make sure that the old works. - so it is easier to track new bugs....:)

 

But I was already playing around with a batch file that ask you over a rudimentary pop-up menu what options.lua to copy in your saved-games folder right after the launcher exits and before the DCS.exe starts - so you can choose from a preconfigured set for each aircraft.

--- but it is still not in that state for a release...and MP is still a big problem . This Sim is already running in MP- so you have to disconnect to to change your settings...

 

...Oh , I stray from the subject!... :P

 

EDIT: There is already something like this "new "special" option " in DCS - just read following postings! - It just needs some smal edits.

Things that ED can easily add by default - and I requested for exactly this in point#5.

 

 

And yes - even if it is only a "simple" file edit - you have to know it first. - And when you don't know - you can easily get frustrated- end even more if you have seen/videos screens that exactly show what you need , but you can't find it first.

I hope you get my point...


Edited by PeterP

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Further - add unique names for the exports like "A-10 RIGHT_MFCD" instead only "RIGHT_MFCD". As this will get more and more a problem when we get new modules and use different "monitorSetup.lua's" for each module.
On this point, it may be interesting to have some "if" in monitorSetup like that :

 

if (cockpit == A10) {Right MFCD .... LEFT MFCD}

if (cockpit == KA50) {SHKVAL ..... ABRIS.....}

 

One file for all.


Edited by Togg
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Wow. Great post PeterP. I did not install dcs:world yet as I am waiting for the final version, but it's very frustrating to still see some bugs which are as old as BS1 version 1.0 and raised to the dev for about the same amount of time. Even more frustrating to see bugs that were solved and now back.

I realize I have been patiently waiting for the last 3 years without raising any voice but now I really really wish to see something done once and for all and peterp summarized very well what's bugging us for all this time.(well except the textures bug which is new to me).

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Further - add unique names for the exports like "A-10 RIGHT_MFCD" instead only "RIGHT_MFCD". As this will get more and more a problem when we get new modules and use different "monitorSetup.lua's" for each module.
On this point, it may be interesting to have some "if" in monitorSetup like that :

 

if (cockpit == A10) {Right MFCD .... LEFT MFCD}

if (cockpit == KA50) {SHKVAL ..... ABRIS.....}

 

One file for all.

 

 

That's exactly my point...

 

But there is no "If" needed (! - don't make it more complicated than it is)

when you have unique names for each exports.

And It would be possible to have only one "monitorSetup.lua" for all modules. If a specific export is not available for a certain module in e.g. \DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\Ka-50\Cockpit it will be simply not shown. - and nothing eles.

 

So we only need unique names - no "if" is needed to create only one file for all.

 

Here is a example:

Right now you find in the

\DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\Ka-50\Cockpit\ABRISAbris.init_lua for The Ka-50 two definitions that can be used in the "MonitorsSeetup.lua" , these are:

Line#40:

try_find_assigned_viewport("ABRIS","RIGHT_MFCD")

 

And later produces a conflict with the naming of the A-10...

 

So If every device would get a own name a.g "A-10_RIGHT_MFCD" there would be no conflicts and one file would be sufficient to for all modules.

 

 

This can already be tested if you delete the "RIGHT_MFCD""Left_MFCD" out of the Abris_init.lua / Shkval_init.lua

 

- in Short:it is already possible to write a file that is working for KA-50 and A-10 at the same time but it needs manual edit like described above.

 

But if it would be called by default e.g "A-10_RIGHT_MFCD" - it would be no problem to write a MonitorSetup.lua out of the box that will work for all modules at a fixed resolution setting - so It will work in MP,

but you cant switch res- or turn of monitors.


Edited by PeterP

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so I understand it; I will be able to set up my abris on right side as now and my shkval on bottom left?

 

A10C I have one on bottom left and the other top rightside.

 

depending on which USB I have turned on for the sim, and which module I'm flying (atm).

 

see attached


Edited by Mastiff

" any failure you meet, is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back, "  W Forbes

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts,"  Winston Churchill

" He who never changes his mind, never changes anything," 

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Mastiff,

It will not be ..., it is already .

Just edit the *init_.lua of Abris/Shkval like I suggest above and you can use one "Monitorsetup.lua" that serves them all!

 

 

Just use the attached files, I already deleted LEFT_MFCD,RIGHT_MFCD out of them.

 

 

So now you can write one file for KA-50 and A-10.

 

Copy ABRIS_init.lua in DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\Ka-50\Cockpit\ABRIS

 

Copy SHKVAL_init.lua in DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\Ka-50\Cockpit\SHKVAL

 

 

And use a "Monitorsetup.lua" similar like this (just put in you needed values):

 

 

_ = function(p) return p; end;

name = _('One file to rule them all');

Description = 'One file to rule them all';

Viewports =

 

{

Center =

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width;

height = screen.height;

viewDx = 0;

viewDy = 0;

aspect = screen.aspect;

}

}

 

GUI=

{

x = 0;

y = 0;

width = screen.width;

height = screen.height;

}

 

-- A-10C

 

LEFT_MFCD =

{

x = 0;

y = screen.height -300;

width = 300;

height = 300;

}

 

 

RIGHT_MFCD =

 

{

x = screen.width -300;

y = screen.height -300;

width = 300;

height = 300;

}

 

-- Ka-50

 

ABRIS =

{

x = screen.width -300;

y = screen.height -400;

width = 300;

height = 400;

}

 

Shkval =

{

x = 0;

y = screen.height -300;

width = 400;

height = 300;

}

 

 

UIMainView = GUI

But it is just silly that this isn't done by default in the init.lua...!

 

 

Edit: and use this tweak - to have the GUI always windowed - so you can easy switch between resolutions and/or monitor arrangements without the need to close DCS each time:Fix: adding a custom resolution to in-game options.

 

Further: So when you edit the MFCDs to in A-10C you would be able to only use the monitor-arrangement that you use for BS. And you won't need to switch between setting in MP.

 

Tip: So turn both screens in portrait and put them to the left, so you can use the smallest windowed in-game rese for DCS and try to live with a little smaller Shkval image.

Use this post of mine as guide-line:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1399384#post1399384

always try to get the smallest possible res!

You even can streamline it even more by using SoftTH - but this is discussed on other pages than this. >>> go this direction:http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1405898#post1405898


Edited by PeterP

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But there is no "If" needed (! - don't make it more complicated than it is)

when you have unique names for each exports.

But you have the read the whole file each time. Now it is possible to fly different aircrafts during a mission, with a if or switch condition, you have just to read the part corresponding to the current cockpit.

 

Currently, the file is short because we have only A10 and KA50 but with more modules, the file will become huge so it could be interesting to take into account this possibilty.


Edited by Togg
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But you have the read the whole file each time. Now it is possible to fly different aircrafts during a mission, with a if or switch condition, you have just to read the part corresponding to the current cockpit.
And the problem is?!

Sorry,

Seems you didn't fully understand what I have wrote- please read again and make some test in DCS:World A-10/Ka-50 before discussing this further.

 

>>> see my first answer on your suggestion (underlined and in bold):

But there is no "If" needed (! - don't make it more complicated than it is)

when you have unique names for each exports.

And It would be possible to have only one "monitorSetup.lua" for all modules. If a specific export is not available for a certain module in e.g. \DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\Ka-50\Cockpit it will be simply not shown. - and nothing else.

 

...

 

Currently, the file is short because we have only A10 and KA50 but with more modules, the file will become huge so it could be intereting to take into account this possibilty.
Just use a proper editor like notepad++ - no problem to Browse in files that have more than 10.000 lines and find exactly what you are looking for within seconds.

 

I don't see how a "if" can make the file smaller - and isn't this exactly what you are looking for "one to rule them all" ?


Edited by PeterP

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And the problem is?!

 

Less time I suppose because you load only what you need.

 

I don't see how a "if" can make the file smaller

 

Not smaller but faster to browse

 

Edit: the point is, I don't know if the monitorSetup.lua is reloaded or not when you change the aircraft type during a mission.

 

Edit: I can't make the test because I have a BS2 update, I have to wait :D


Edited by Togg
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Less time I suppose because you load only what you need.

 

Edit: the point is, I don't know if the monitorSetup.lua is reloaded or not when you change the aircraft type during a mission.

 

Edit: I can't make the test because I have a BS2 update, I have to wait :D

 

In short:

 

>You start a sim of a specefic module.

>The viewport DXmodule/view-port phraser reads out you "monitorsetup.lua"

>DCS-Sim looks in specific module what Exports are defined ...

G:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Scripts\Aircrafts\>module<\Cockpit

 

If no definition for view-port "XY" is found , it will not be loaded!

 

 

So there is no waste of resources and time.

 

The only thing that might happen is that in a log-file there will be a warning/error like "can't assign/load view-port XY" -nothing more/nothing less.

 

Not smaller but faster to browse

 

That's exactly why I ask for a unique name for each view-port including the module name in point#5:

 

5.

Please Enable the "render_purpose.SCREENSPACE_OUTSIDE_COCKPIT," for all exports by default, and switch on the possibility to export them in the appropriate *_init.lua by default.

So Threads like this will have an end:

Exported all my A-10C displays in DCS World - mostly

 

And add this exports to the "MonitorSetup".Lua. - so newbies will have a better time.

BTW: this relates: Annotation in frequently user-changed Files

This can look like this:

Example for the 1Screen.lua (see attachment):

 

 

I made a file package that did exactly this already for DCS:A-10c 1.1.1.1

>>> enabling Cockpit Exports in DCS-A10

I can't see any reason why this shouldn't be done by default to all modules.

 

 

Further - add unique names for the exports like "A-10C_RIGHT_MFCD" instead only "RIGHT_MFCD". As this will get more and more a problem when we get new modules and use different "monitorSetup.lua's" for each module.

edit:

@ all

Please help yourself and me to save time and read carefully what I have wrote before posting questions.:)

 

 

:D :D :D

Edit: the point is, I don't know if the monitorSetup.lua is reloaded or not when you change the aircraft type during a mission.

 

That's one is the greatest problem of mankind since day one...

just think about what all went wrong , just because people didn't know - but did take their assumption as fact! think about ...religions, wars, sailing with a boat beyond the horizon without falling from the disk..., ect.... ;)


Edited by PeterP

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Ok, I see, everything is loaded at the begining then stay in memory. I thought that for instance if you start with the A10, only the A10C MFCD are loaded from the file and the other modules are ignored for all the time even if you switch to the KA50 in the same mission.

 

 

So it's fine :)


Edited by Togg
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