GGTharos Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 It's back at FC2 levels and that's where it will stay for now. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Rage* Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Nevermind, ill continue the discussion in the other thread? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 The same parameters are used for all playable SARH missiles at the moment with respect to chaff rejection so this thread is appropriate. My point is that I seriously doubt any more action will be taken right now in terms of tuning chaff rejection - at this point, IMHO that's not even the correct course of action to take. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknetinium Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 As I understand, kinetic energy of missiles in FC3 is a big factor to how good missiles reject chaff? 51st PVO Discord SATAC YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't believe that to be the case from what I have heard. There was the chaff being set to wrong RCS, and I believe there was another bug that was fixed that had to do with missiles dropping track, but I'm not clear on that one. Missile kinematics are supposedly completely divorced from the chaff rejection algorithm (note that this doesn't mean missile speed doesn't affect countermeasure rejection in certain ways - ie. getting the missile closer to the bandit faster means reducing the amount of CMs in the FoV - but it's not part of the CM rejection code), and it is a separate problem which has caused much debate. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teknetinium Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 , and it is a separate problem which has caused much debate. Was referring to that debate. I have no clear data or understanding to get involved. My self look at it as such, DCS pilots should be forced to employ realistic reaction to threats to stay alive, even if that means to divert from known facts of missile in order to create realistic reaction from pilots. 51st PVO Discord SATAC YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 That has nothing to do with the kinematics. Kinematics will only affect the range at which you will have to do these things. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 That has nothing to do with the kinematics. Kinematics will only affect the range at which you will have to do these things. Not true. I do not know why, perhaps because the Doppler effect in AIM120 because of to large reductions distances because of high speed missiles (I know, this is not modeled), but if AIM120C slow its lock is interrupted when a defensive turn, when we turn at the time of transition 90 degrees. When AIM120C fast, missile not loses lock!!! “The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 The doppler effect should only be modeled with respect to the notch, not chaff - at this point. Countermeasure rejection is completely stochastic, as far as I know. If you have a missile going slower, then it can certainly have a lot more CM's inside its FoV, which will increase the probability of biting on chaff. If there are other factors, I don't know them - but I've been led to believe it's completely stochastic, modified by the number of CMs in the FoV of the missile (regardless of who drops them BTW, you can chaff/flare for your friend! ;) ) and the target aspect (the latter in an attempt to simulate some doppler rejection. But again, it's not doppler simulation) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volk Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 There was the chaff being set to wrong RCS, and I believe there was another bug that was fixedКак сказал Чиж, это исправлено в патче, который еще не вышел. Т. е. у нас пока старые значения с ЭПР дипольных отражателей 10 кв. м. ЭПР 3 кв. м будет в следующем патче. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 And another fact! I do not know if I wrote about it earlier, but ARH sensor cannot react when the target is moving at more than 30 degrees per second in sight! So it should be... “The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 No, this is already done in the existing patch, AFAIK. Как сказал Чиж, это исправлено в патче, который еще не вышел. Т. е. у нас пока старые значения с ЭПР дипольных отражателей 10 кв. м. ЭПР 3 кв. м будет в следующем патче. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 So it has to be 10m away from the target to get that sort of rate. And another fact! I do not know if I wrote about it earlier, but ARH sensor cannot react when the target is moving at more than 30 degrees per second in sight! So it should be... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_RAAF_Sniper Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 no missile launch warning in the F-15 when R-27 fired at it got killed many times cause no warning when fired upon really annoying. my specs are i5 3570 IVY at 4.2 / 24gig of ram / 2tb of hd / duel gtx570's / 32' 120 hertz led mon. / ch stick ped & throt (VTA-Sniper standby) alot of bias crap on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkspade Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 no missile launch warning in the F-15 when R-27 fired at it got killed many times cause no warning when fired upon really annoying. This only happens when the its the ET as its IR and thus no warning, or an ER is fired in an RWR deadzone. The deadzone occurs when the attacking aircraft is at an angle greater than 30 degrees above or below the defending. Being banked greater than 30 degrees induces this RWR blindness. http://104thphoenix.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 What kind of R-27? What the parameters of the shot? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostie Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Flying DCS A-10C you can get quite used to the luxury of the MWS, FC3 aircraft can only dream of such advantages. Whoever said FC v DCS fighters will be easier for FC pilots really didn't sit down and think about it. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 51st PVO "BISONS" Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 MWS means what? Sry for that kind of question... I don't own A-10C... :/ DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyE Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 MWS means what? Sry for that kind of question... I don't own A-10C... :/ It's stands for Missile Warning System. It's essentially an array of optical sensors placed around an aircraft that detect the flash of light from a missile launch. The system then alerts the pilot to the missile launch and also tells him the rough direction and distance. It's a powerful tool that gives a pilot a fighting chance against IR as well as radar guided missles. You can't kick *** without tanker gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Oh yes, that system, of course I knew, I just didnt get the short term "MWS"... :P They basically "see" the waves of the light the burning missile fuel is producing, right? And also, the MWS has unlimited range? o_O DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyE Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Oh yes, that system, of course I knew, I just didnt get the short term "MWS"... :P They basically "see" the waves of the light the burning missile fuel is producing, right? Something along those lines. And also, the MWS has unlimited range? o_O Not to sure on it's effective range, but I'm sure it varies from situation to situation. You can't kick *** without tanker gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_RAAF_Sniper Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 This only happens when the its the ET as its IR and thus no warning, or an ER is fired in an RWR deadzone. The deadzone occurs when the attacking aircraft is at an angle greater than 30 degrees above or below the defending. Being banked greater than 30 degrees induces this RWR blindness. well not the case on at-least 4 that i know of co alt and head to head and 3 i know were from almost dead six long but still and this angle biz i i will have to look that up. but as we all know rus missile can skim below 10 ft and kill there target but USA missile can not. so what ever this is to much of a possible hostile thread im not going to argue a mute point that has been going on since the original lockon. ps (its like talking to a wall) my specs are i5 3570 IVY at 4.2 / 24gig of ram / 2tb of hd / duel gtx570's / 32' 120 hertz led mon. / ch stick ped & throt (VTA-Sniper standby) alot of bias crap on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostie Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 well not the case on at-least 4 that i know of co alt and head to head and 3 i know were from almost dead six long but still and this angle biz i i will have to look that up. but as we all know rus missile can skim below 10 ft and kill there target but USA missile can not. so what ever this is to much of a possible hostile thread im not going to argue a mute point that has been going on since the original lockon. ps (its like talking to a wall) 'but as we all know' To be frank you don't seem to know much regarding the sim. An R-27ET won't give you a warning because it is an infrared seeker the same as an R-73 and AIM-9. This is what is hitting you without warning, it states this in the manual. The only missiles that won't track below 20metres are R-27ER and R-27R. Next is the AIM-7 which goes slightly lower, then the AIM-120B which tracks down to a couple of metres off the ground. Finally the AIM-120C, R-27ET, R-27T, R-73, AIM-9L, AIM-9P all track all the way down to 1 metre above ground. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 51st PVO "BISONS" Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostie Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 ok what ever i have flown LockOn Flaming Cliffs 1/2&3 same issues same argument and apparently you dont know cause no US missile would hit nothing under 5 meter would go plunk right in the dirt. like i said ( im not going to argue a mute point that has been going on since the original lockon. ps (its like talking to a wall)) From what I can make out you're trying to say that US missiles alone don't hit their target below 5m. What you've actually written doesn't make any sense, this might be why you get blank responses (wall). The 10 metre exploit affected all radar missiles not just US ones. US IR missiles hit below 10m the same as Russian ones. But that is history. 1 "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 51st PVO "BISONS" Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 No, not what-ever ... Frostie is correct, and you don't know what you're talking about. AIM-120's have been made to track at very long altitude for along time no, never-mind the heat seekers. While the '20m exploit' exists, it exists at '3m' against the most advanced missiles, and if you're good enough to fly that low and not get scraped off on the ground, more power to you. This isn't going to change for the moment. ok what ever [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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