BF 109 K4

I think it's time to start own topic for this great fighter. 109 is my favourite fighter of WW2 and K4 is "the ultimate" version of it. I think it was great choice from devs even it's a bit late model for normandy, as now we should be able to fight pretty much equally against any allied fighter. G6 or 14 would have suffer too much in this late war company. Of course i hope they will come later as add-ons :) Anyways, with two 13mm machine guns and one 30mm cannon it could be very deadly plane in hands of skilled pilot, and with MW 50 methanol-water injection it should be able to outclimb any fighter out there (well spitfire XIV should be about equal AFAIK).

Question for devs: judging by cockpit screenshot (wich looks awesome btw) engine will be DB 605 DB with 1.80 ata/ 1800hp, will there be DC version with C3 fuel and 2000hp's available too?

Awesome sound of DB 605 D:

http://youtu.be/CnpC_BcK7xY

http://youtu.be/yeyRoyLxqXU (my fav part starts about 42:00 :))

Good idea DB to start a thread about the K. Maybe I will learn a lot because I know very little about her right now. :thumbup:

Good idea DB to start a thread about the K. Maybe I will learn a lot because I know very little about her right now. :thumbup:

Thanks, that was indeed the idea of this topic: information to those who are interested :book:

Here's short quote from wikipedia:

"The final production version of the Bf 109 was the K series, or "Kurfürst", introduced in the autumn of 1944, powered by the DB 605D engine with up to 2,000 PS (1,973 HP). Though externally akin to the late production Bf 109G series, a large number of internal changes and aerodynamic improvements were incorporated that improved its effectiveness and remedied existing flaws, keeping it competitive with the latest Allied and Soviet fighters.[/url]The Bf 109's outstanding rate of climb was superior to all Allied adversaries including the P-51D Mustang, Spitfire Mk. XIV and Hawker Tempest Mk. V"

So even it looks a lot like earlier versions it's actually pretty much different animal. For example it had recratable tailwheel, fully covered landing gears, flettners on ailerons (it's not known how many K's actually have them as earlier G-type ailerons was used too).

Only 67" MP for the P-51, no MW50 for the 190, and we're getting a Spit IX, so I hope we get a 1800hp 109, not 2000hp.

Only 67" MP for the P-51, no MW50 for the 190, and we're getting a Spit IX, so I hope we get a 1800hp 109, not 2000hp.

Really? I thought MW 50 was confirmed to D9? But if that's the case i'll be pleased without DC version too :)

Question for devs: judging by cockpit screenshot (wich looks awesome btw) engine will be DB 605 DB with 1.80 ata/ 1800hp, will there be DC version with C3 fuel and 2000hp's available too?

If MW 50 is used, then C3 fuel is permitted only. See "L.Dv.T.2109 K-4/Fl Teil 2" page 9

Nach Umstellung des Motors auf MW-Betrieb darf nur C 3 verwendet werden; falls kein C 3 vorhanden, kann mit B 4 bis zur Kampfleistungsstufe (30 min. rating) geflogen werden

But you can use the 115 L MW-50 tank as an additional fuel tank for B 4 or C 3 fuel.

The lever to switch between MW-50/MW-30 and normal fuel mode is marked with #7.

By the way, the lever #7 and the canopy handle to open the canopy is not modeled.

But it's still WIP...:D

If MW 50 is used, then C3 fuel is permitted only.

Yes, thats the case with DC version. With DB 605 DB it was possible to use MW 50 with B4.

Here's good table from "Messerschmitt Bf 109's of JG 52 in Deutsch Brod" (JaPo)

So no Kurfurst over Normandy on June 1944.

Yes, thats the case with DC version. With DB 605 DB it was possible to use MW 50 with B4, as far as i know.

Well the manual I quote speaks of a DB 605 DM engine.

From what I've read also DB 605 D-1, DBM, DCM and also AS engines could be build in.

Well the manual I quote speaks of a DB 605 DM engine.

From what I've read also DB 605 D-1, DBM, DCM and also AS engines could be build in.

Yes, see table in my edited post #8. :)

DB605A engine - lets say standard engine, B4 fuel, 1475hp

DB605AM engine - same engine, with MW50 injection+C3 fuel, 1800hp

DB605AS engine - DB605 with DB603 supercharger, B4 fuel, 1435hp

DB605ASM engine - DB605AS with MW50 injection+C3 fuel, 1800hp

DB605ASB engine - DB605AS with increased compression, MW50 injection+B4 fuel or just C3 fuel, 1850hp

DB605ASC engine - DB605AS with increased compression, MW50 injection, C3 fuel, 2000hp

DB605D engine - higher compression than DB605A, different oil system, different boost regulation, C3 fuel, 1550hp

DB605DB engine - DB605D with MW50 injection+B4 fuel or C3 fuel, 1850hp

DB605DC engine - DB605D with MW50 injection+C3 fuel, 2000hp

DB605DM engine - DB605D with MW50 injection+B4 fuel, no C3 option, 1850hp

as now we should be able to fight pretty much equally against any allied fighter. G6 or 14 would have suffer too much in this late war company.

I think Spitfire IX will be quite a bit handicapped compared to the BF109K4...

Actually, with FW190D-9, and with Me.262 added, the Axis pilots might have quite an advantage against the Allies...

Well, its quite difficult to implement superiority in numbers in a multiplayer environment, which from a gameplay standpoint, needs to be balanced. :smartass:

I am actually looking forward to the awesome challenge that is facing off against a 262 in a Mustang! :pilotfly:

edit: I can barely fly the Mustang, so even a parked 262 will be a challenge for me.. :megalol:

DB605A engine - lets say standard engine, B4 fuel, 1475hp

DB605AM engine - same engine, with MW50 injection+C3 fuel, 1800hp

DB605AS engine - DB605 with DB603 supercharger, B4 fuel, 1435hp

DB605ASM engine - DB605AS with MW50 injection+C3 fuel, 1800hp

DB605ASB engine - DB605AS with increased compression, MW50 injection+B4 fuel or just C3 fuel, 1850hp

DB605ASC engine - DB605AS with increased compression, MW50 injection, C3 fuel, 2000hp

DB605D engine - higher compression than DB605A, different oil system, different boost regulation, C3 fuel, 1550hp

DB605DB engine - DB605D with MW50 injection+B4 fuel or C3 fuel, 1850hp

DB605DC engine - DB605D with MW50 injection+C3 fuel, 2000hp

DB605DM engine - DB605D with MW50 injection+B4 fuel, no C3 option, 1850hp

errr...

DB 605 D-1 B4 fuel, no MW-50 injection

DB 605 DM B4 fuel (no MW 50 usage allowed) or C3 fuel with MW-50 injection

Which challenge?

To shoot at starting or landing Me262? :megalol:

Sorry couldn't resist.

Which challenge?

 

To shoot at starting or landing Me262? :megalol:

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

Ahahaha... Good one! :thumbup:

I think Spitfire IX will be quite a bit handicapped compared to the BF109K4...

 

Actually, with FW190D-9, and with Me.262 added, the Axis pilots might have quite an advantage against the Allies...

Well Spit IX is a bit slower and less good at climb but it still have advantage at turnfight. K4 and D9 being about equal to allied planes, only Me 262 will have real advantages against allies but it will have some disadvantages too.

Here's a link of the excellent http://www.kurfurst.org site.

There are more information about the DB605 and power settings/fuel/MW50:

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109K_PBLeistungen/Leist_109K_EN.html

errr...

[ATTACH]90352[/ATTACH]

 

DB 605 D-1 B4 fuel, no MW-50 injection

DB 605 DM B4 fuel (no MW 50 usage allowed) or C3 fuel with MW-50 injection

Yep, conflicting resources everywhere, changes of designations and technical specifications all the time. Got 5 datasets for the D, 3 agree on maximum power, 2 pairs agree on full throttle altitudes, 2 agree on the boost, all 5 agree on C3. The K-4 manual, next page to the one posted, in the only one to implicate the use of B4, which may very well have become acceptable later in the war.

Same thing about the DM, hardly used, maybe relabelled quickly. Standard engines in the K-4 were DB and DC. Since the K-4 handbook says what it does, it was probably correct at the time.

Yep, conflicting resources everywhere, changes of designations and technical specifications all the time. Got 5 datasets for the D, 3 agree on maximum power, 2 pairs agree on full throttle altitudes, 2 agree on the boost, all 5 agree on C3. The K-4 manual, next page to the one posted, in the only one to implicate the use of B4, which may very well have become acceptable later in the war.

Same thing about the DM, hardly used, maybe relabelled quickly. Standard engines in the K-4 were DB and DC. Since the K-4 handbook says what it does, it was probably correct at the time.

Exactly. :thumbup:

Only 67" MP for the P-51, no MW50 for the 190, and we're getting a Spit IX, so I hope we get a 1800hp 109, not 2000hp.

Well, we might yet see the +25lbs boost for the Spit, I think Yo-Yo was asking if anyone had materials about how exactly the engine modifications looked like in another thread. That would definately make the Spit not a pushover with around 360 mph speed and better climb rate.

And if we see the 25lbs boost for the Spit we might as well see the 150 Octane fuel used in the Mustang. 390 mph speed for the Pony, hmmm, that would be interesting :) Who knows. That would definately even things out but it all depends on the dev team and is up to them of course.

Besides engine rating, it would be interesting to know which airframe condition the would represent: early batches with canopy antenna mast, no main wheel well doors, and fixed tail wheel, or late batches with all the aerodynamic improvements intended from start.

The only accoutrement I really want for the 109K is the radiator shutoff valve. The 109F had that, the 109G discontinued it (why???), and it was brought back for the 109K.

The only accoutrement I really want for the 109K is the radiator shutoff valve. The 109F had that, the 109G discontinued it (why???), and it was brought back for the 109K.

This is one thing that Prien & Rodeike got wrong: the G series had them from factory, and K series got them only on the first machines, as it was dropped from production at request of Daimler-Benz.

As a sidenote, there is the possibility that also 1942 Schlacht Bf 109Es got them, as this device was initially tested in that variant (see VB 109 08 T 41 Abschaltung der Flügelkühler Me 109 E v.22.4.41)