can not start engine

hi , I'm quite new

 

I'm sticking to the P-51 instead of jumping around different aircrafts

I've read stuff and done the in-sim training modules

 

in trying to get the engine started I can only get it to the stage of hearing the battery but the propeller will not start

if I keep the "start" pressed the propeller turns slowly but dosnt go fast and the battery runs out

 

about 5hrs of trying,

 

the tutorials would benifit from highlighting the control in question at each stage -although through trial and error ( yes that's where the 5hrs went ) I'm pretty sure every needed thing was in place at each stage

 

the sadness is sapping my will

 

any ideas from anyone with their fond newbie memories ??

Can you post a track? after you exit a mission there is a button for "save track" or something. It will be in your c/users/[user]/saved games/dcs/tracks

i will see if i can help you...

[ame]

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With the switches set properly, you can try this for the final steps. It helps me in servers and on missions where atmospheric conditions screw with the standard procedure.

 

Make sure your throttle is opened no more than 1"....

 

Hold the prime button for 8 seconds, then let it up.

Hold the starter switch.... ad KEEP holding it.

Watch the blades rotating past your canopy and count 8 of them.

While holding the starter switch, run your mixture from Idle Cutoff to Run, and cycle to Rich, Cuttoff, Run... at 1 second intervals.

 

You will see the engine try to catch on the Rich setting. When it does, get it to Run and KEEP holding the starter till the engine catches. This gets it for me 99% of the time.

 

If things get stupid, you can always start out with ground power attached, and your battery won't run out - plus you'll get a stronger and faster initial rotation.

 

If you see squadron guys on the Dogs of War server, you can reach them on TeamSpeak. The TS address is dow-dcs.duckdns.org, and the password DoW. Any one of us will gladly help you out.

Hey! i've had this problem, and i think it has something to do with the current atmospheric conditions you're in (multiplayer server, weather etc.) anyway, what i do is after priming for about 10 seconds or so, i hit the starter and let the engine turn for about 10 seconds. after that, let it rest for 10 seconds, then try hitting the starter again. It should work cos this is how i start it.

 

Anyway... i think there is something i'm doing wrong for the startup but it seems to work when i do this. Hope this helps :)

After one of recent patches, something has changed in system modelling and the procedure shown in a vid above and described in manual doesn't quite work anymore. You can notice that even auto-start script fails more often than not.

 

However, if You just crank the engine a few blades before priming, turning magnetos etc. and THEN continue with the rest of the procedure, it works as advertized and the engine will catch up on the first try.

 

To avoid straining and burning out the starter in cold map conditions, flipping oil dilute switch for a minute or so just before cranking solves the problem.

Lately I've been flying the P-51 a few times helping some friends and it started flawlessly, I think even better than previous patches making start a bit tougher.

 

 

Hold the prime button for 8 seconds, then let it up.

Hold the starter switch.... ad KEEP holding it.

Watch the blades rotating past your canopy and count 8 of them.

While holding the starter switch, run your mixture from Idle Cutoff to Run, and cycle to Rich, Cuttoff, Run... at 1 second intervals.

 

You will see the engine try to catch on the Rich setting. When it does, get it to Run and KEEP holding the starter till the engine catches. This gets it for me 99% of the time.

You can do this very same with primer, as also seen in many real P-51 vids. The question is primer, 4 seconds not enough the first try with a cold engine? add some primer seconds the next one to 8 for instance. BUT, while starting if you see engine not even trying to catch fire after a few blades you can always prime while pushing starter. It works quite well, it even works when engine runs and you can keep it running for ever just priming now and then until you switch mixture to run position. Should you haven't enough buttons in your Joystick for everything needed at least know those keys and use them, obviously you can't click at once two or three cockpit items.

 

 

Anyway, check everything twice, or thrice, the only times my engine doesn't start is when I'm trying to start quickly and I forget to switch on magnetos, open the fuel cock, throttle isn't 1 inch forward or mixture kept in run position from previous flight.

 

S!

There has been much debate about priming before or while turning the engine. From my testing, both work, but priming while initially turning the prop works better. Again, this is from my experience.

 

My method for starting requires at between 2 and 4 active fingers (experience with women my be an advantage :P), depending on your wom...controller, I meant controller :smilewink:. I'm using a TM HOTAS and actually use my thumb on 2 switches at the same time, so I'm kind of cheating already :D.

 

I'm not going to go through setting flaps and turning on the battery, etc. because they are either inconsequential or you should already be clear on how to set them already. I'm only talking about Fuel Mixture, Primer, Magnitos, and the Starter - the actual starting process. This is how they should be set before beginning to start:

 

Beginning:

Step 1:

The manual says to count 6 blades, before turning the ignition (Magnetos) on. Because of the way my switches are setup, I actually have Primer and Magnetos-"Both" on 1 switch, so at about 4 blades I'm actually hitting that switch and turning Priming and Magetos-"Both" on at the same time. Since I'm not going to get ignition that quickly--before the last 2 blades turn--it is inconsequential.

 

Step 2:

-- and hold them --

 

Ignition usually starts after about 2 seconds, and from my experience, it very reliable.

 

IGNITION - the engine is firing, do I need to describe this further? ;)

 

Step 3:

Your engine is now running! :thumbup:

Happy landings :pilotfly:

Hi. Thanks for responses

 

Exactly which switches or knobs are Fuel Mixture, Primer, Magnets. ?

 

Surely DCS should do a complete label up of all dash/plane controls with explanations,

I bet a lot of newbies try and give up and move on without buying content never to return

Thanks for the vid link Hoogs

 

I notice there is an indicator of which control there

 

This is not present when I try, maybe because I use VR only ( rift cv1 ) ?

 

Frustrating as its the devs supporting VR that's brought me here

Edited May 22, 2016 by adrianstealth

Ps that video shows me where things are, thanks

 

Will try again later

Hi. Thanks for responses

 

Exactly which switches or knobs are Fuel Mixture, Primer, Magnets. ?

 

Surely DCS should do a complete label up of all dash/plane controls with explanations,

I bet a lot of newbies try and give up and move on without buying content never to return

Thanks for the vid link Hoogs

 

I notice there is an indicator of which control there

 

This is not present when I try, maybe because I use VR only ( rift cv1 ) ?

 

Frustrating as its the devs supporting VR that's brought me here

That video is made using the start up tutorial, included within P-51 and other modules (release status ones mostly). That tutorial, like the weapons ones, have that switches hints in yellow indicating what you have to do step by step. You can't get lost with that.

 

Anyway, we aren't talking about a space shuttle launch, handbook has all the information needed with comprehensive explanation of every cockpit switch, and while in cockpit you can hold mouse over switches and there are labels indicating what they are.

 

S!

To prime cylinders, the engine must be rotating. So priming before turning the engine over shouldn't be charging the cylinders anyway.

 

So, my technique, which is successful pretty much all the time, is to turn the prop, then while turning it, prime for a few seconds until it catches, then release the priming switch, and set the mixture control to run, and it soon catches.

 

Turning the engine over pre-start with the magnetos off, while priming also works because the cylinders are already primed when you attempt to start it.

These guys all have good advice.

 

If she doesn't start first try for me, she always starts second try.

 

If she doesn't catch after 3 or 4 turns stop or you will kill the batt.

 

Prime her again and she should start second try.

And be gentle with your ingnition trys, the P-51 engine starter is also realy fragile it tends to break and die the overheat death after some trys.

The manual says: "The starter should not be used for more than four 20-second attempts to start, with 15-second intervals, followed by a 5-minute cooling period".

 

When you are learning to start the engine, you should not rush it. While learning, I found that the 15 second intervals was sometimes not long enough.

 

Once you've released the starter switch you can hear the starter motor winding down. Wait for it to stop, which will take longer than 15 second if you've been straining it for 20 seconds.

 

If when you hit the starter switch, and you have battery power (don't forget, you can also call the ground crew to give you ground power), and nothing happens, the starter is burned out and you can either restart the mission or call the ground crew to do repairs, which ever you prefer.

 

As far as where the switches and controls are, come on guys, there's a well illustrated manual, and the tutorial in post #3, which show you where everything you need to know to start the motor is. You should take at least the time to familiarize yourself with the basics of the cockpit before heading for the sky.

I had a chat about this with the pilot who advised on A2A's P-51D for FSX. The real life, modern day recommended startup procedure is this:

 

Once ready to start make sure the fuel cutoff is open (up) and the fuel booster pump is on. Advance the throttle 1" from the stop and hold the primer (the engine does not need to turn for this as you're injecting into the manifold, not the cylinders) for as many seconds as necessary for ambient temp (there's a table for it but I don't have it handy).

 

With magnetos OFF, crank engine for 6 blades.

 

On the 6th blade flip magnetos to both. If properly primed, the engine will start on the primer gas.

 

Once initial start is achieved move mixture from cut off to run and the engine should stabilize (gotta be quick since it will only run on primer for a second or two).

 

If I remember right, the reason for starting on primer alone is for safety, if you over prime the engine you can catch the exhaust stacks on fire and a carb set to run will only help the fire to grow (they call it a wet start or hot start and there are YouTube videos of this phenomenon).

 

Oh, and in exceptionally cold weather you may be out of luck... Oil dilution will thin out the oil so it will crank easier and will also prevent excessive oil pressure that will blow out the lines after startup but the catch is that you have to dilute before shut down of the previous flight for it to really help, not during the start of the next flight. And since DCS does not save vehicle state from session to session there is no way to properly use the dilution system as described.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

According to this T.O. No. 1F-51D-1 the procedure is essentially:

 

1. Hold starter switch ON

2. Ignition BOTH after 6 blades

3. Fuel booster pump ON

4. Primer Switch ON 3-4 seconds cold, 1 second hot

5. On start Mixture Control RUN

6. Release starter switch

 

So if this document is followed the practice (per DCS Flight Manual) of priming the engine first followed later by a start is wrong. The primer switch instead should be engaged after the starter switch is held and released before the starter switch is released. This corresponds well to the current behavior in DCS.

 

Physically it is possibly best to lift the starter switch with the left hand turned upward, middle finger. The ignition is set to both with the right hand and kept there for safety. The fuel booster is set ON with the left hand, index finger. Hold primer on for the appropriate time left hand, ring finger. On start move left hand off switches to set mixture control run.

 

In the sim the left hand duty can be accomplished by the HOME and INSERT keys for starter and primer, M for mixture, and I don't know what the fuel booster (we can be forgiven for setting it on before the process I think). The right hand (mouse) controls the ignition.

 

Changing the key bindings to INSERT Fuel Boost Pump HOME Starter PAGE UP primer would better mirror the physical layout of the real switches.

 

As an aside I don't set the flap handle up before start since there is no pressure in the accumulator to move them before start. Thus this is additional strain on the engine during start. I'm sure this was done in reality (having accumulator pressure residual or added by external means) to actually move the flaps to the up position to avoid wear by blown debris.

 

The T.O. also mentions starting using UNRAMMED FILTERED AIR, COLD switching to RAM AIR immediately prior to takeoff presumably to prevent ingestion of dust and debris as well.

 

The throttle should not exceed the 1500 RPM position either before start or during shut down as it can get stuck in a too open position which can cause excessive throttle on the next start.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Frederf

As far as where the switches and controls are, come on guys, there's a well illustrated manual, and the tutorial in post #3, which show you where everything you need to know to start the motor is. You should take at least the time to familiarize yourself with the basics of the cockpit before heading for the sky.

 

The problem is, Capt, if anyone tries replicating exact procedure shown in this old vid, or procedure described in the current manual, he will not start current revision of the DCS Mustang. Damn, even ED-programmed auto-start script fails more often than not nowadays :D.

 

Some additional hocus-pocus is required with cranking or/and priming and that's what this thread is about.

 

@Frederf - the practice might be wrong according to "T.O. No.1 1F-51D-1", but is exactly right according to AAF 51-127-5 manual, which the DCS one was based on. Both practices should work easily then, and yet, they don't.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Art-J

I thought that was clear until now :(. I was only referencing the way the tutorial shows where the switches and controls are.

 

I would like to think that I wouldn't simply write down what Tuckie10 said in his tutorial and present it as my method, without stating that :smilewink:

Ate my post twice so this is doubly quick:

 

Quick Start mission is not normal. In QS I can start with DCS manual technique using 1.2'' (1.0'' is not enough) of priming. However in simplest possible Mission Editor scenario there is no priming which works.

 

But I found if you move propeller any RPM (even the width of a single blade) and then do manual technique that you get same behavior as Quick Start mission provided (TF-51D). Even 1.2'' at -20C works but you have to use ground electrical power due to the cold.

 

So, simple battery ON, starter move one blade, then do procedure like normal is a workaround.

But at the end the question is, do you get it started? I think almost all of us use slightly different methods (also following different real manuals and vids available) and they all work. I start my engine almost always in the first try, anybody still has any problem starting? apart from a newcomer of course.

 

S!

The cause of confusion is - after one of recent patches, the priming pump doesn't seem to work at all, UNLESS:

a) you prime not before but while cranking the engine;

b) you cranked the engine a little before the beginning of the whole startup procedure later, with priming the stopped engine as per manual.

 

Which is odd, since the pump is not engine operated and it injects fuel into manifold, so it should work without a) or b) anyway.

 

Experienced DCS flyers can use many techniques to get around this issue (as seen above), but I can see how the novice ones might be in trouble, as the most obvious help sources - DCS manual and tutorial mission, don't take this peculiarity into account.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Art-J

No, it cannot be true, that priming does not work while not turning the engine/propeller, otherwise you could not start by that method, which you can. I did it just the other day.

Noticed a change in startup sequence too a while back (about that time EDGE was released). What I do now is I'm using the same startup sequence as before (priming with starter switch off, than holding starter switch on, as soon as it catches setting mixture to run) with the difference I'm giving the prop a few rotations via the starter while the engine is unprimed.

 

That way it will always catch quickly when starting it up primed. If I do not give the prop a few rotations beforehand the engine just wont catch with the described method.