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so who flies by feel and who flies by performance charts?


WildBillKelsoe

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what I usually do is fly without curves, then if it gets out of sync, I put in curves. I never fly by charts because I don't believe in them. its a dynamic environment. how about you fellas?

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I mostly fly by the feeling. The main numbers I keep memorized are fixed wing approach speeds and helicopter maximum rate of descent. I keep those memorized because they are the most important for safety. By the time you feel vortex ring state it is already too late if you are not high enough to recover.

 

Besides, One or two numbers for each aircraft is not too bad for memorizing. MiG-21: 340 km/h, F-15C: 150 kts, P-51D: 120 MPH, UH-1H: -500 ft/min...

 

With the MiG-21 you have to remember 5g maneuver limit while carrying a payload or you lose it. You can't feel your way out of that one. It might also be worth memorizing max continuous on the P-51D so you don't blow your engine, but as long as you keep the temperatures in the green you should be fine.


Edited by VincentLaw

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Everyone memorizes at least some key bits of performance data, even if they don't realize it.

 

For the A-10 one of the easiest and best references is the standard climb speed schedule that is 200 KIAS minus 1 knot per 1000 feet above Seal Level. Kind of a useful rule of thumb of this pig.

 

Why wouldn't I want to know that?

 

If I were serious about wanting to be able to maximuze the A-10's performance in a knife fight if I get caught and forced to defend myself through aggressive BFM then I would probably want to know some other things like corner speed and sustained turn rates and such just so I can practice in that regime and then get a feel for it.

 

I honestly think that people who make the argument about feel versus numbers are missing the point that most feel is derived from training with numbers so that you don't need to think about numbers when you need them.

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Feeler here. Yeah Im one of those rare guys who is in touch with his emotions. ;)

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It's important to know your aircrafts capabilities, then this is the charts... for planning & know how much you can push your aircraft.

 

But once you're flying, your feeling must be your first imput

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I'd say I do both. I try to be mindful of specific parameters while I'm flying and keep to those as much as possible (like Vincent's example of the 5g payload limit) but I also fly by feel, especially if I'm in a dogfight and my eyes are glued to the bandit and not the instruments.

 

Of course with my limited time in cockpit this flying by feel doesn't always work out but I'm getting better as I put more time into it. Main thing slowing that down has been my A.D.D. with multiple modules (I keep hopping between aircraft too much) and the fact that my sessions get limited by my current desk setup just not being comfortable to me. The latter should get settled when my Obutto cockpit comes in this month and I can start putting more time into the sim without ending up with back/tailbone issues.

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For take off and approach speeds I use reference values, otherwise I"m quite a feeler too, because I mostly fly A-10C (100% power is the way to go) and MiG-21 (can't see the speedo during fights anyway).

 

But I admit I'd love to improve my flight discipline to be able to fly by the charts, to target the best cruise, climb or turn speed. I must study more :smartass:

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In RL aviation, not believing in charts is probably a good way to end up dead.

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I love and prefer charts... But to be honest there is usually enough to do that I don't get to reference them as often as id like. I love "cheats" like the three bars on the A10's aoa which show ideal climb, loiter and landing angles. Quick way to stay on spec without doing math.

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Whoever claims to fly by charts lies. :)

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Whoever claims to fly by charts lies. :)

 

Maybe I should have said " I want to be the kind of pilot who flies by charts"

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I mostly fly by feel , but i do read the specs before hand , like at first i crashed the mig21 at landing before i did the training that said to come in pretty fast at about 350km/h with almost no flare at all (hard for someone who flies RC planes to get used to)

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charts

 

#DashOneFTW

 

 

but a solid familiarization with the "feel" of the aircraft is necessary - the more i fly it, the more "a part of me" the aircraft is becoming

 

to be sure though, best rate of climb and best angle of climb etc inform my actions..

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You fly and lie as well?

Ha ha...no. I use the knowledge that I have from documents to use my airplane to its max potential in combat. You need to know your stalling speed to do a perfect hammerhead just as you need to know where is your best roll-rate and where your enemy fails at this maneuver (P51vs109) etc.

 

So many things you need to know about both you and enemy if you want emerge victorious.

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You need to know your stalling speed to do a perfect hammerhead

 

Bad example, I think. I spent fifteen seconds last night memorising the stall speeds for all aircraft in the world during the vertical part of a hammerhead entry... ;)

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It's not like we compare to real pilots either, :D and even them don't mind-plot the charts in real time either.

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Is that what this thread is about? The idea that some people think flying is either about ignoring all numbers (which makes no sense because you have instruments everywhere) or about doing nothing but reading performance charts in one hand while flying with the other?

 

 

Welcome to the internet, home of the false binary argument.

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I guess I am too 'dumb' to understand these charts. If said charts are useful, there should be some training to allow the uninitiated to a) make sense of them and b) apply them in the air. :)

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