WildBillKelsoe Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 what I usually do is fly without curves, then if it gets out of sync, I put in curves. I never fly by charts because I don't believe in them. its a dynamic environment. how about you fellas? AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangi Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Charts? What charts...... PC: 6600K @ 4.5 GHz, 12GB RAM, GTX 970, 32" 2K monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentLaw Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) I mostly fly by the feeling. The main numbers I keep memorized are fixed wing approach speeds and helicopter maximum rate of descent. I keep those memorized because they are the most important for safety. By the time you feel vortex ring state it is already too late if you are not high enough to recover. Besides, One or two numbers for each aircraft is not too bad for memorizing. MiG-21: 340 km/h, F-15C: 150 kts, P-51D: 120 MPH, UH-1H: -500 ft/min... With the MiG-21 you have to remember 5g maneuver limit while carrying a payload or you lose it. You can't feel your way out of that one. It might also be worth memorizing max continuous on the P-51D so you don't blow your engine, but as long as you keep the temperatures in the green you should be fine. Edited March 2, 2015 by VincentLaw [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingHighAU Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I fly the same way I handle women. (I use the charts...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Everyone memorizes at least some key bits of performance data, even if they don't realize it. For the A-10 one of the easiest and best references is the standard climb speed schedule that is 200 KIAS minus 1 knot per 1000 feet above Seal Level. Kind of a useful rule of thumb of this pig. Why wouldn't I want to know that? If I were serious about wanting to be able to maximuze the A-10's performance in a knife fight if I get caught and forced to defend myself through aggressive BFM then I would probably want to know some other things like corner speed and sustained turn rates and such just so I can practice in that regime and then get a feel for it. I honestly think that people who make the argument about feel versus numbers are missing the point that most feel is derived from training with numbers so that you don't need to think about numbers when you need them. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Feeler here. Yeah Im one of those rare guys who is in touch with his emotions. ;) Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaz0 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 It's important to know your aircrafts capabilities, then this is the charts... for planning & know how much you can push your aircraft. But once you're flying, your feeling must be your first imput Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Smiles Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'd say I do both. I try to be mindful of specific parameters while I'm flying and keep to those as much as possible (like Vincent's example of the 5g payload limit) but I also fly by feel, especially if I'm in a dogfight and my eyes are glued to the bandit and not the instruments. Of course with my limited time in cockpit this flying by feel doesn't always work out but I'm getting better as I put more time into it. Main thing slowing that down has been my A.D.D. with multiple modules (I keep hopping between aircraft too much) and the fact that my sessions get limited by my current desk setup just not being comfortable to me. The latter should get settled when my Obutto cockpit comes in this month and I can start putting more time into the sim without ending up with back/tailbone issues. "Hurled headlong flaming from the ethereal sky; With hideous ruin and combustion down; To bottomless perdition, there to dwell; In adamantine chains and penal fire" (RIG info is outdated, will update at some point) i5 @3.7GHz (OC to 4.1), 16GB DDR3, Nvidia GTX 970 4GB, TrackIR 5 & TrackClip Pro, TM Warthog HOTAS, VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV, Razer Blackshark Headset, Obutto Ozone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiedDroit Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 For take off and approach speeds I use reference values, otherwise I"m quite a feeler too, because I mostly fly A-10C (100% power is the way to go) and MiG-21 (can't see the speedo during fights anyway). But I admit I'd love to improve my flight discipline to be able to fly by the charts, to target the best cruise, climb or turn speed. I must study more :smartass: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 In RL aviation, not believing in charts is probably a good way to end up dead. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I love and prefer charts... But to be honest there is usually enough to do that I don't get to reference them as often as id like. I love "cheats" like the three bars on the A10's aoa which show ideal climb, loiter and landing angles. Quick way to stay on spec without doing math. Custom Pit 476 Recruiting i9-12900KF, 32 GB DDR5, Gigabyte Aorus Z690 Master, Gigabyte RTX 2080 Ti, 1TB Sabrent Roket 4+ 2x750GB RAID-0, TrackIR 5 /w clip, CRG9 49” Curved Ultrawide Flight Display+15" Touchscreen+17" Gauges display, Thrustmaster Warthog+7.5cm, Saitek Pro Combat Pedals, Streamdeck, Butt Kicker and pneumatic G-Seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Whoever claims to fly by charts lies. :) [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Whoever claims to fly by charts lies. :) Maybe I should have said " I want to be the kind of pilot who flies by charts" Custom Pit 476 Recruiting i9-12900KF, 32 GB DDR5, Gigabyte Aorus Z690 Master, Gigabyte RTX 2080 Ti, 1TB Sabrent Roket 4+ 2x750GB RAID-0, TrackIR 5 /w clip, CRG9 49” Curved Ultrawide Flight Display+15" Touchscreen+17" Gauges display, Thrustmaster Warthog+7.5cm, Saitek Pro Combat Pedals, Streamdeck, Butt Kicker and pneumatic G-Seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djent33 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I’m a f#ing liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solty Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I do both. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djent33 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You fly and lie as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_A Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I mostly fly by feel , but i do read the specs before hand , like at first i crashed the mig21 at landing before i did the training that said to come in pretty fast at about 350km/h with almost no flare at all (hard for someone who flies RC planes to get used to) IAF.Tomer My Rig: Core i7 6700K + Corsair Hydro H100i GTX Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7,G.Skill 32GB DDR4 3000Mhz Gigabyte GTX 980 OC Samsung 840EVO 250GB + 3xCrucial 275GB in RAID 0 (1500 MB/s) Asus MG279Q | TM Warthog + Saitek Combat Pedals + TrackIR 5 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDsc0rch Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 charts #DashOneFTW but a solid familiarization with the "feel" of the aircraft is necessary - the more i fly it, the more "a part of me" the aircraft is becoming to be sure though, best rate of climb and best angle of climb etc inform my actions.. i7-4790K | Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkI | 16Gb DDR3 | EVGA GTX 980 | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswind | Panasonic TC-58AX800U [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 All I'm gonna say is that anybody that ever dropped a bomb by "feel" before CCIP probably never hit a damned thing. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solty Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 You fly and lie as well? Ha ha...no. I use the knowledge that I have from documents to use my airplane to its max potential in combat. You need to know your stalling speed to do a perfect hammerhead just as you need to know where is your best roll-rate and where your enemy fails at this maneuver (P51vs109) etc. So many things you need to know about both you and enemy if you want emerge victorious. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effte Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 You need to know your stalling speed to do a perfect hammerhead Bad example, I think. I spent fifteen seconds last night memorising the stall speeds for all aircraft in the world during the vertical part of a hammerhead entry... ;) ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I wonder what Topgun classes are like. Surely they don't spend the whole time talking about their feelings.... Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 It's not like we compare to real pilots either, :D and even them don't mind-plot the charts in real time either. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFunk1606688187 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Is that what this thread is about? The idea that some people think flying is either about ignoring all numbers (which makes no sense because you have instruments everywhere) or about doing nothing but reading performance charts in one hand while flying with the other? Welcome to the internet, home of the false binary argument. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrohde Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I guess I am too 'dumb' to understand these charts. If said charts are useful, there should be some training to allow the uninitiated to a) make sense of them and b) apply them in the air. :) PC: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X | MSI Suprim GeForce 3090 TI | ASUS Prime X570-P | 128GB DDR4 3600 RAM | 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD | Win10 Pro 64bit Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate VKBcontrollers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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