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Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods


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I also found THIS

 

sCmMAHF.jpg

 

This is PS3 Dual Shock 3 analogue thumb stick. It seems that it is on hall sensors. But each axis has 4 pins? What is pinout? I am not happy with Target Designator / LOS Slew switch, as I understand it should be something like thumb stick with push button anyway. I'd like to use hall sensors if possible.

 

I don't play games on PS, is Dual Shock 3 a good controller?


Edited by debolestis
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am i supposed to use the drivers that come packaged with MMjoy? as i just downloaded the standard arduinio drivers from ardionio.

 

or maybe my arduinio is bad?

 

MMJoy dont require drivers, is "PnP" , use Windows native HID drivers.

 

You dont write the Arduino board with MMjoy firwmare? This dont require addtional Arduino drivers, only the firmware.

 

When you write the firmware MMjoy the device is recognized as USB dvice but not as joystick, is need use the Configurator and set the "joystick" parameters: number of axism buttons, HAT, name, VID/PID, etc. and save for device.

 

Then uplug and plug again and will be recognized as joystick and appear in Windows Control Panel Games Controllers.

 

In Configurator you can test buttons, encoder, set axis curves...

 

Post your doubt here - Mega_Mozg, the MMJoy firmware developer can help.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3899105/MMJoy_-_Build_your_own_USB_con

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I also found THIS

 

dualsDual%20Shock%203%20analogue%20thumbstick_zpskccgzsqy.jpg

 

This is PS3 Dual Shock 3 analogue thumb stick. It seems that it is on hall sensors. But each axis has 4 pins? What is pinout?

 

Some about this PS3 sensor here:

 

http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=127575.0

http://letsmakerobots.com/node/34705

 

The inside HALL sensor should be this: http://www.gmw.com/magnetic_sensors/sentron/2sa/documents/2SA10.pdf

 

A "3D" sensor like the Melexis in Warthog/T.16000M.

 

Dreamcast controller mini stick too use HALL sensor.

 

 

Other miniature HALL sensor "joystick":

 

http://cdn.sparkfun.com/datasheets/BreakoutBoards/N35P112_Datasheet_v1_1.pdf

 

His movement is linear (not angular like josytick), see in this video:

 

 

Sees suitable for "TDC" - if this output is compatible with generic USB controller...

 

BTW - Your F-15 Talon looks brand new. :thumbup:

 

You are using the original pot's or change for HALL sensor?


Edited by Sokol1_br
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BTW - Your F-15 Talon looks brand new. :thumbup:

 

You are using the original pot's or change for HALL sensor?

 

It is actually a Raptor that I built for a friend. It was rusty and greasy, but when I washed it in a bucket with dish detergent and later with alcohol, it became "brand new".

 

I used original pots that were in good condition, I just couldn't do a proper hall mod.

 

What I tried to do, and I tested this and it works:

 

KaUISWq.gif

 

4APzZWk.gif

 

It is called push-push configuration. As you can see it has linear response, perfect for joystick.

Problem is that there is no space for magnets to travel inside. The other option was to make magnets stationary and hall sensor movable. But it is not stable, wires can fall off. Maybe you Sokol can try this mod.


Edited by debolestis
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MMJoy dont require drivers, is "PnP" , use Windows native HID drivers.

 

You dont write the Arduino board with MMjoy firwmare? This dont require addtional Arduino drivers, only the firmware.

 

When you write the firmware MMjoy the device is recognized as USB dvice but not as joystick, is need use the Configurator and set the "joystick" parameters: number of axism buttons, HAT, name, VID/PID, etc. and save for device.

 

Then uplug and plug again and will be recognized as joystick and appear in Windows Control Panel Games Controllers.

 

In Configurator you can test buttons, encoder, set axis curves...

 

Post your doubt here - Mega_Mozg, the MMJoy firmware developer can help.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3899105/MMJoy_-_Build_your_own_USB_con

 

 

yep i'm flashing the mmjoy firmware to the Arduino, i had to install the Arduino drivers in order to figure out what com port the Arduino was going into when you set it to bootloader mode.

 

the firmware is definatley flashed onto teh arduinio, but i'm just not getting any inputs (apart from axis) picked up in mmjoy its self... in windows some buttons are showing up, & everything is definatley wired up correctly...

 

i'll post on there & see what mega_mogz thinks! :)

think i'll also try another arduinio.. just to rule that out as no-one else seems to be having these issues!

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I used original pots that were in good condition, I just couldn't do a proper hall mod.

 

What I tried to do, and I tested this and it works:

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/debolestis/fig45_zpsd3ia5qjq.gif

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/debolestis/fig46_zpsrqtndons.gif

 

It is called push-push configuration. As you can see it has linear response, perfect for joystick.

Problem is that there is no space for magnets to travel inside. The other option was to make magnets stationary and hall sensor movable. But it is not stable, wires can fall off. Maybe you Sokol can try this mod.

 

I try something similar at few years using the pot case as base for magnets, but maybe due the use of Allegro A1302 - less sensible, I end with reversal axis in end of gimbal movement.

The magnets travel result more than this sensor was able to read, and I cant change the magnets travel...

 

Since I have limited time do finish this MOD - done for a guy that need move of city - I ended making this "balance" lever, using the "ball join" that fit on pot lever, work good, getting

~95% of sensor reading ( ~950 of possible 1024 points of BU0836).

 

gimbal_jpg_Click_to_see_more_photos.jpg

http://s7.postimg.org/w3nvcgosb/f15hall_jpg_Click_to_see_more_photos.jpg

This clear material is model plywood - that latter was soaked with CA and Epoxy glue - ugly but should last. :)

The lever was done with fiberglass PCB sheet.

 

I read the Doc'Flyer MOD again (originally write in my native language) and the trick part is the magnet sizes, need be the same his use (5x5x5mm or 15x5x5mm) because the magnets block act as "supported lever".

 

That mod was done in the Physics' Laboratory of a University - supposedly applying correctly mechanics Physics Laws. Is important test assembled in F-15 gimbal and not externally.

 

I SimHQ MMJoy topic a guy say that use Doc'Flyer MOD successfully in his Suncom.

 

EDIT - Here the guy say that make successfully the "Doc'Flyer" HALL mod.

 

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/26011-mwo-simulator-work-log/page__p__652316#entry652316


Edited by Sokol1_br
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Since Combatstick controller handle HAT and 10 buttons (besides 3 axis) you have option to make the shoulder button on F-15 Talon work as 3 way switch like the real one.

 

Other idea is use the two Combatstick HATS in place of Suncom ones, they have better construction.

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Since Combatstick controller handle HAT and 10 buttons (besides 3 axis) you have option to make the shoulder button on F-15 Talon work as 3 way switch like the real one.

 

Other idea is use the two Combatstick HATS in place of Suncom ones, they have better construction.

 

i have two sim chairs, i need 2 working sticks, and i only have 2 ch combatstick boards for it, i dont have additional parts to combine boards into one stick.

 

 

i dont really have to make anything, but i love modding

 

as much as i want to put an analog stick on the grip, but you are right, the combat stick only has 3 axises, so i have to nix the analog mini stick

 

i like to try to keep the hat as a hat, i think i might consider using the CH one if i am able to get it to fit.

 

i have to start researching for tactile switches, i wish some one can tell me the information for that!!!

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

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im waiting for the author of this page to reply back

http://theseger.com/projects/2014/09/converting-suncom-sfs-throttle-usb/

 

ironical i have already modded a full set fully functional suncom hotas set using ch pro throttle board and ch yoke board back in 2009, but original base is too big for my setup

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

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after some research i have found that the switches in question

are tactile switches

6mm x 6mm x 7mm(actuator height) with a push force of 260 grams

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0/P12196S-ND

 

and 12mm x 12mm x 7.3mm (actuator height) also with a push force of 260 grams.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0/CKN9142-ND

 

after digging up a invoice from 2009, i see that i used 200 grams and 160 grams which felt flimsy.

i had to break out the trusty kitchen scale to confirm that 260 grams matches the stock hardware

i hope this info helps someone in their modding adventures.


Edited by hannibal

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

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just picked up 3 old talons, along with 2 others i already have, i hope to produce two fully functional sticks using the CH Combatstick control board. yay for fun project

 

Good luck with your mods! Please post photos of your work.

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I was working on suncom's grip, I wanted polished look. It is possible to polish this grip, but very difficult. I tried to use dremel for polishing, but even on low speeds it is melting plastic. Then I used this:

 

IsnVEIC.jpg

I used table drill on very low RPM, and it worked but it takes a lot of time.

Maybe there is a better solution, if you know how please post.

 

5Prv2h3.jpg

 

Vo78y14.jpg

 

e0dsvyl.jpg

 

rNoGo7e.jpg

 

Real thing:

 

UHx8wTa.jpg

 

I am also looking to buy one suncom grip, if somebody wants to sell one please send me a message.


Edited by debolestis
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I was also looking to buy better switches, I don't like micro switches that are used in suncom. I found them all but prices are crazy.

 

fdCksQj.jpg

 

I7rWuhW.jpg

 

Something similar on eBay

 

KyGXlEG.jpg

 

hzFBzu5.png

 

This one was even difficult to name, it is actually called a Trim 2-Way Push button.

Found it on eBay but the price...

 

aiWsLkK.jpg

 

This one is actually affordable, I don't know if it will fit.

 

At the moment I am will probably use NKK switches for push buttons.

 

For 4 way switches am still looking.

 

Trim 2-Way Push button will be improvised.

 

Toggle switches on throttle also feel like crap. I was thinking of using larger switches but I cannot find one with flat lever.

 

I found this image, and on the right there is grey potentiometer knob, on SFS there is a switch. I'd like to put potentiometer inside, but what type is it? Multiturn or "regular"?

 

Are there better photos of real throttle?

 

oPv2pxH.jpg


Edited by debolestis
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I was working on suncom's grip, I wanted polished look. It is possible to polish this grip, but very difficult. I tried to use dremel for polishing, but even on low speeds it is melting plastic. Then I used this:

 

20150601_112550_zpsmgrsthq5.jpg

 

 

I am also looking to buy one suncom grip, if somebody wants to sell one please send me a message.

 

wow. looking amazing. i am tempted to do this.

 

ill have some spare grips after my project.

 

ebay is the best to finding old suncoms also!

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

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i would like to put a analog stick found on xbox controllers but i dont have spare CH boards like the pro throttle or yoke that has mini stick axis.

 

im just going to make my suncom stick a simple refurbish but using CH combatstick controller boards- no ministick, no hall sensors, and sad to say no polish.

 

im currently stripping the PCB board in the suncom grip

now if i can only digg up my notes from 2008 for when i first did a total suncom conversion, else i have to ohm and trace out every pin.

 

unless someone else has the scehematic / board reference handy..

:)

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

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wow. looking amazing. i am tempted to do this.

 

ill have some spare grips after my project.

 

ebay is the best to finding old suncoms also!

 

It would be great if you can sell me one.

 

There are always talons and raptors on eBay but mostly in U.S. and shipping from there is expensive.

 

Why don't you use Leo Bodnar's board or something similar? There are 8 axis on it.

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I was also looking to buy better switches, I don't like micro switches that are used in suncom. I found them all but prices are crazy.

 

t4-0010_zpswbbhndth.jpg

 

 

Are some OTTO (and one CH) HAT in Mouser with prices starting in 48$ (up to 1000$+)

 

http://www.mouser.com/OTTO/Electromechanical/Switches/Multi-Directional-Switches/_/N-5g2z?P=1yyh514&Ns=Pricing|0

 

CH is now Apem Inc http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/500-526/679-2289-ND/2063280

 

I found this image, and on the right there is grey potentiometer knob, on SFS there is a switch. I'd like to put potentiometer inside, but what type is it? Multiturn or "regular"?

 

I think you should analyze for how you will use this knob in Flight Simulation and use the potentiometer suitable for this function (and not how this is in real thing).

If for move up/down radar normal pot is OK, if for trim nose up/down 3/5 turn pot (10 is difficult for recenter).


Edited by Sokol1_br
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It would be great if you can sell me one.

 

There are always talons and raptors on eBay but mostly in U.S. and shipping from there is expensive.

 

Why don't you use Leo Bodnar's board or something similar? There are 8 axis on it.

 

where are you?

my bodnar board will be used for the button/rotary encoder stack box.

i choose to use the ch combatstick board because of the CH control manager functionalty

 

the Real f15 grip is sexy

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

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