Dealing with AA

Hi all. Not new to DCS but new to the modern aircraft. The Ka50 is the first complex one I'm getting into. Learning a lot and have a grip on most stuff, just needing practice. One thing that confounds me is concealed AA. What's the best way to deal with them?

I try to hang back and spot them in trees and towns but have a real hard time. Should I try and do high speed fly-bys and hope to draw fire, then mark them? I'll sometimes send the AI wingman in and it'll be 50/50 he'll report them.

I'm just wondering, tactically, how the heck do you deal with concealed AA in the Ka50? If they're out in the open, it's easy, you line them up and they're done. I'm playing the campaign that comes with and it's tough -- they're well placed and hidden. So what's a chopper pilot to do?

Hi all. Not new to DCS but new to the modern aircraft. The Ka50 is the first complex one I'm getting into. Learning a lot and have a grip on most stuff, just needing practice. One thing that confounds me is concealed AA. What's the best way to deal with them?

Wingmen keeping an eye for you .... or, if you know there's going to be AA there, don't go there.

I try to hang back and spot them in trees and towns but have a real hard time. Should I try and do high speed fly-bys and hope to draw fire, then mark them? I'll sometimes send the AI wingman in and it'll be 50/50 he'll report them.

I'm just wondering, tactically, how the heck do you deal with concealed AA in the Ka50? If they're out in the open, it's easy, you line them up and they're done. I'm playing the campaign that comes with and it's tough -- they're well placed and hidden. So what's a chopper pilot to do?

1. You know some places will be protected by AA, so stay away. You don't need to see them, you know they're there because that's where you'd place them.

2. If you DO need to go in, pick up speed, get your CM program going with pre-emptive flares, run in, attack ONCE and then get back out. Even if using Vikhrs.

3. Realistically, you shouldn't have easy time to spot AA under almost any circumstances. Games, by the nature of their limitations, make it a lot easier than it ought to be.

4. There are SOME OP things about the little MANPAD guys ... they can shoot too many missiles and there is no way to limit how many they shoot and how often, but ED is always trying to get such things sorted out.

Fair enough. But what if those baddies stand in between you and the target?

Fair enough. But what if those baddies stand in between you and the target?

You've got a mission briefing and a map, right?

So make a flight plan. Where would you put AAA or SAMs if you wanted to shoot down an aircraft attacking the target?

If those places offer good concealment, either have a plan for not going in until you've got them neutralized, or consider a route that involves mostly going around their area of engagement.

Often the campaigns put air defenses in sub-optimal spots. Compare to the Inta Humar combined arms multiplayer missions where the ground forces players try to maximize the sneaky and evil when it comes to shooting down the F-18 pilots (there's a mod for the F-18s).

Often in the campaigns it's actually a bit easier than it would be with a multiplayer tactical commander who's well prepared and serious about scoring aircraft kills.

The nice thing is that the AIs are completely unable to plan, so you have a 100% planning advantage when going up against them. Remember to use it.

Unless you run out of gas, are under time pressure, or might run into more serious threats along the way, there's no reason not to go around the long way if that will get you behind a target without overflying air defenses.

With the Ka-50 you can fly right above ground level so using terrain LOS can be very powerful. Just remember that while trees screen AI units from your view, the trees are transparent to them and can be fired through as well. You need either ground or buildings if you want to protect yourself with cover.

Fair enough. But what if those baddies stand in between you and the target?

Fly around ;):D

One of the worst things which can be done is to stay at nearly one and the same spot.

Go back and than carefull come back from another direction.

So you can possibly spot Targets which have been not in your line off sight first.

Wondering how will we do it with the Hind and the Cobra against the AAA.

2 sets of eyes...

2 sets of eyes...

If digital WSO can tell us where the enemy is that will be a outstanding addition, thats for sure.

The fixed AAA has a max range of 2.5km, so they are fairly easy to go around even without knowing their exact location. You can also fly above them sometimes, though that's more difficult. In any case, they are generally located in and around towns, facilities and checkpoints. You won't typically find them in the middle of a big open field. So if you think fixed AAA is around, then simply avoid overflying any buildings you haven't checked out thoroughly with your camera.

Another good method is to tell your AI wingman to target air defenses. The AI sees absolutely everything, even stuff behind mountains, so they will get it all provided they live long enough. For this to work, clear out what you can, especially any SAMs, and then tell your AI to go after air defenses. Typically they will get all the hidden manpads and AAA as they go after those by what is closest. But they do prioritize SAMs, even ones that are not a threat. So you do have to keep a close eye on them as they will charge off on a suicide run to kill a BUK site 200km away on the other side of a mountain range if you let them. And the AI will fly through a nest a shilkas to do it too.:doh:

This is getting interesting in order to learn about combat deployment. Now imagine the situation, you're with gun + SA8 rockets only, to attack a enemy camp protected by ZSU-23, how you deal with that?

Hover 3.5-4km away, target him, snipe with cannon. HE works best.

Now thats a long distance to hit something with the gun.

HE = 4.2 km maximum range> gets good accuracy at less than 3km in slow(400RPM) firing mode

AP = 5.5 km maximum range> and by far less effective against soft targets like Soldiers/Manpads accurate at less than 3km aswell.

It's true the gun isn't very accurate at more than 3km, but with short bursts and a steady bird you can get a few rounds on target.

The P Hind gun should have the same range, right? Wondering how I will aim, even at half that distance.

NOT HOVERING IN PLACE!

Same as everything, a moving target is harder to hit and gives you chance to get out of range faster.

Honestly i know chopper sniping is very attractive but it's more applicable to radar attacks like the Longbow showed us.

Same with jets if i'm getting close to a known threat bubble I shave at it getting closer and induce the fire at a more comfortable range and altitude.

Of course it doesn't work in situations with no information on threats in which case you are in a cyclical argument on whether you should even get out of bed that day.

2 sets of eyes...

yeah - i gotta side with joey on this one... i find gameplay in the ka50 really shoots through the roof when you are flying with a couple other ka50 guys and leveraging the bejeezuz out of your datalink and abris.

fighting in the ka50 tends to have the largest pucker factor for me. those manpads make the mission tense.

Patience is the Key with the Kamov, fly around at distance and see what you can see. Zoom right in, it is possible to see targets at long range with your mark Is and even further with your shkval. load each AAA/Manpad into the Abris and once you know you can advance safely choose a route that gives best cover..... just in case you didn't see them all.

If the only threat is AAA then I tend to come to a hover at 3 km and hold a dead hover with APs... The AAA won't reach you. Set a slow burst with HE and apply a touch of left pedal to stop the chopper yawing right when firing.... don't worry, you will not be staying in that position long.

Repeat.

Sometimes I try to get the sites to open fire so I can fix their positions. Circle back out of range and engage at max cannon range.

Heh it only takes a few small caliber hits and the Shkval is knocked out :(

Hover 3.5-4km away, target him, snipe with cannon. HE works best.

Now thats a long distance to hit something with the gun.

I was thinking the same thing. 2.8 is about as far out as I try to hit anything and I prefer to get within 2.5.

If its Infantry like a Manpad you can easy Do it at 4 km. If it's a Strela 1 I go with a little less.

The gun of the KA 50 is like a Multitool. It's effective against everything except Battle Tanks.

NOT HOVERING IN PLACE!

 

Same as everything, a moving target is harder to hit and gives you chance to get out of range faster.

 

Honestly i know chopper sniping is very attractive but it's more applicable to radar attacks like the Longbow showed us.

 

Same with jets if i'm getting close to a known threat bubble I shave at it getting closer and induce the fire at a more comfortable range and altitude.

 

Of course it doesn't work in situations with no information on threats in which case you are in a cyclical argument on whether you should even get out of bed that day.

You mean you attack on the move? Or you're talking about a Hover techniche I don't know?

He talks about attacking on the move.

Attacking with gun in a sideway flight with more than 30 km/h will save you from beeing hit by wire guided missiles, just as example.

But its also not good to do attacks/scans always while moving.

Best is to find the right balance for yourself.

> Try to plan your attack as best as it can be done from Distance.

> Run your attack with focus on High threats for yourself first (such as Radarguided MR/LR range SAMs, Midrange IR SAMs and Tanks.

>Choose your Weapons wisely> a Shilka is in fact an easy Target for the 30mm 2A42.

Keep eyes open (Not only on your Target) to possibly see Incoming Missiles from different Angles towards yourself.

Knowledge about your Targets is needed ( Is that a Shilka or a Tungusk BOOOM...... oh its been a Tunguska) :)

> Fly as you have been alredy detected by your enemy. (keep attack runs short)

EDIT: !Multitasking! > Fighting,Flying,Looking,Systems,Situationhandling/Awareness

The biggest problem I see is that you don't have concealment because the trees don't count and that is something that any attack chopper pilot will use when going to strike enemy position were the area is not secure.

In the same way there is no concealment the enemy AI can actually see you thru the woods and shoot at you and that is something you can't do.

I think you will learn everything with experience, but my tip would be to NEVER ever use the stupid hover mode and etc., or you will get killed a lot. You can fly with Route mode outside the combat zone, but when you're in it, have the 3 default channels on + the FD/AP and just fly manually. (I don't use the Rudder Trim option, but have the Center Trim option checked, I think it works best).