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Will the Skies over Normandy be populated?!


Celestiale

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In my experience, if you put equal pilots in the P-51 and one of the German fighters, the pilot in the 109 or 190 should win every time.

 

I would expect the same result in a 2vs2 or larger fight, but with the 190's edge growing even more substantially.

 

Yep. The P-51D with current power setting is inferior. 150 octane fuel could resolve that problem and make engagements more balanced. Any news about it? Will they add it at some point? I would really like something official:helpsmilie:

 

PS. If there was a statement about it already I have noticed. I am sorry in advance


Edited by Solty
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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

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Yep. The P-51D with current power setting is inferior. 150 octane fuel could resolve that problem and make engagements more balanced. Any news about it? Will they add it at some point? I would really like something official:helpsmilie:

 

may be, you should more train and less complaining

stop crying solty, you are so boring with this ...

if you are not able to kill enemy, it does not mean that some is wrong with game

 

if someone can use advantage of his plane and position, he will win

if not, losse

it is simple

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F-15E | F-14A/B

P-51D | P-47D | Mosquito FB Mk VI |Spitfire | Fw 190D | Fw 190A | Bf 109K |  WWII Assets Pack

Normandy 2 | The Channel | Sinai | Syria | PG | NTTR | South Atlantic 

F/A-18 | F-86 | F-16C | A-10C | FC-3 | CA | SC |

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In my experience, if you put equal pilots in the P-51 and one of the German fighters, the pilot in the 109 or 190 should win every time.

 

That is far from my experience.

 

Online, The Dora is more agile and faster with Sondernotleistung (MW50) but the Mustang is more stable, easier to keep in a precise turn and holds it own without issue.

 

You are busier in the Mustang because of the engine controls but overall the Mustang is a better ride and very much an equal.

Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize:

 

1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250

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That is far from my experience.

 

Online, The Dora is more agile and faster with Sondernotleistung (MW50) but the Mustang is more stable, easier to keep in a precise turn and holds it own without issue.

 

You are busier in the Mustang because of the engine controls but overall the Mustang is a better ride and very much an equal.

 

Fully agree here. I get the easiest kills of those 3 aircraft definitely with the Mustang. As soon as you are at a German's 6, the kill is most definitely yours, when the German got no help.

In the following conditions [position at enemies 4-8 o'clock, range ~1km, slightly better energy state, enemy noticed you before shooting range] i would say my average kill time with the Mustang is 2-3 minutes, when the enemy gets no help. If i am flying a Dora or a 109 in the same conditions i often ned much longer, 5-10 minutes, sometimes even longer, couple weeks ago i BnZed Cpt.Rookie (Cheers) for 30 minutes and eventually had to go back because of fuel without killing him. When the servers got more populated, you definitely don't have so much time to kill an enemy plane, before getting attacked by his teammates. I think it's perfectly balanced, really don't understand the whine.

And to be clear i fly the Mustang by far the most of the 3 planes so far, so i would definitely benefit if it gets buffed (150octane), but i really don't think that this is necessary.


Edited by Celestiale
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This may be a poor reason but the high oil pressure bug on the 51 has turned me off from flying on multiplayer servers and just flying the stang in general. Maybe there is a reason why they have not released a patch for this yet? I've heard they've fixed it in the beta version. But with working all day I don't find much time to enjoy being a virtual pilot as much as i'd like to anyways. But DCS is by far my "go to" flight sim. I believe it can be the future. The wwii scene for flight sims has a population and once dcs have more content it will attract.

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the developers will have to change the way, how slots are working i think...at least this would help mission builders tremendously.same with skins.the slot system and skin system will hopefully change in future.otherwise its going to be a real pain for mission builders very soon...the more modules we get, the harder it will be to do proper missions with the current system.

 

I agree David ... as soon as 7+ modules are released finding slots for the different planes and having missions to include them all will be difficult. Do you include the P40, Bearcat, Mosquito, etc or just leave them out.

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if you are not able to kill enemy, it does not mean that some is wrong with game

 

if someone can use advantage of his plane and position, he will win

if not, losse

it is simple

 

Amen....

 

Often we want to blame the machine when the problem lies in the mirror.

 

And to be clear i fly the Mustang by far the most of the 3 planes so far, so i would definitely benefit if it gets buffed (150octane), but i really don't think that this is necessary.

 

I agree. I get kills much faster in the Mustang than I do the Dora. The Dora is maneuverable but requires finesse to maneuver. I find myself having to pay more attention to my control position and trying to "feel" where the aircraft is in the turn than I do in the Mustang.

 

When we get bombers to escort and the Mustangs have wing tank racks; then we can ask for a 150 Octane P-51.

Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize:

 

1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250

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This may be a poor reason but the high oil pressure bug on the 51 has turned me off from flying on multiplayer servers and just flying the stang in general.

 

Leave the throttle at idle. I have had this issue twice. Exit, respawn, and do not open the throttle until you switch the mixture on after the engine catches.

Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize:

 

1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250

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Amen....

 

Often we want to blame the machine when the problem lies in the mirror.

 

 

 

I agree. I get kills much faster in the Mustang than I do the Dora. The Dora is maneuverable but requires finesse to maneuver. I find myself having to pay more attention to my control position and trying to "feel" where the aircraft is in the turn than I do in the Mustang.

 

When we get bombers to escort and the Mustangs have wing tank racks; then we can ask for a 150 Octane P-51.

 

You dont have to maneuver to win in a German plane. If you stick to attacking a target for short period of time and just keep your speed, the P-51 cannot catch you. In both Dora and Kurfurst killing of the P-51 is matter of seconds. D9 is harder to maneuver to a position, because it is not how you fight with this plane. Use B&Z tactics. You don't have to turnfight everything that moves.

 

K4 on the other hand is even easier. Not only you turn better than the Mustang, you are also faster than P-51. That means you can outmaneuver him 99% of the time. And even if you fail. Put MW50 on and just fly extend. He will not be able to catch you.

 

 

@ To celestialle. You are comparing pilots not planes. Many people don't know how to fly. But when they do you are in a deep trouble in the P-51. The plane was not made for Dogfighting. It is a B&Z aircraft.

 

This is not a matter of opinion. It is a fact. P-51 is slower and turns worse, climbs worse than Bf109K4. While with Dora P-51 has one real advantage which is turn, against a K4 there is none. Again. This is a fact. Not an opinion.

 

I dont understand why you people are so against 150octane fuel. This would make fights more historically correct, with so many 8th USAAF squadrons that we have in game. It is just a change to engine's power, changing the limits. Nothing new to model, and nothing new to texture not even record new sounds. Just few lines of code, that would make the game more fun to play.

 

Anyway this is not the topic to talk about that any further.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

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Oh good for you, experten!

 

Doesn't change the fact that P51D(with twin poles tail radar) limited at 67"hg pretty did not exist in the ETO, and even with 100/130 octane fuel, the MP was raised to 70"hg, and the vast majority of USAAF that engaged the Luftwaffe was the 8th air force who used 150 octane fuel running at 75"hg, P51D limited to 67"hg fighting BF 109 K4 and D9 was proportionally even less common than K4 and D9 without MW50.

 

And I'd not be surprised if you'd be whine and moan if your precious K4 and D9 did not have MW50. So easy to be on your high horse when your planes are already overperforming even better than the best possible setting the Luftwaffee could have during WW2.


Edited by GrapeJam
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Amen....

Often we want to blame the machine when the problem lies in the mirror.

 

That happens a lot, but I don't see how it applies here. "It's the pilot not the plane" is often the favorite saying of the pilot in the better plane. I've done a bit of dueling in my time and I have discovered many matchups where my buddy and I could switch aircraft, and whoever was in aircraft A would win, and whoever was in aircraft B would lose. We shouldn't be surprised at that kind of result. It is the intended outcome of fighter aircraft design.

 

So, I am looking forward to something that will even up the planeset a bit more in DCS WW2. The Spit Mk IX will be a good addition because it will have very different performance qualities compared to the P-51D. Only having to think about one aircraft type makes it especially easy to fly red right now.

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P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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All these X aircraft is better than Y aircraft are good on paper, but let us not forget that most engagements took place with multiple aircraft on each side. In practice, when you are in the middle of a fight with multiple aircraft, you can't necessarily behave like you would normally in a 1v1 fight. There are just so many variables that you are bound to be forced to react to external factors that are often out of your control. Most of the scenarios you guys describe occur in a 1 vs 1 fight, where the Mustang is at a slight disadvantage. But I think it's nothing an experienced Mustang pilot can't handle.

 

Personally, I try to never attack an aircraft alone. I always make sure I have a wingman. it changes the dynamic of the fight completely. If you can force a fighter to make choices, you have much better odds at making him do a mistake. The Mustang is very manoeuverable and there are many instances where a 109 had complete energy advantage over me and I lived to tell the tale. One of them boom and zoomed me for literally 20 minutes before he gave up and ran out of ammo. Any time he would get on my six I would turn at corner velocity and he would have to zoom back up to avoid bleeding all his speed.

 

Anyway... my point is while I agree that 150 oct fuel would be a nice to have, I don't think the Mustang is at that much of a disadvantage. You'll be surprised to see how a pilot performs in a "superior machine" when you dictate the terms of the fight with a wingman. The minute a 109 loses the initiative, he's lost half the fight most of the time.


Edited by Charly_Owl
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Most of the scenarios you guys describe occur in a 1 vs 1 fight, where the Mustang is at a slight disadvantage. But I think it's nothing an experienced Mustang pilot can't handle.

 

Address the stronger arguments, not the weaker arguments, and pray like hell the 109/190 pilot isn't experienced too. Your opponents sound like they were not.:smilewink:

P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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8th AF Mustangs were limited to 72"Hg not 75"Hg.

 

357-yeager-6nov44.jpg

 

All pilots from 8th airforce.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/357-yeager-6nov44.jpg

 

Also:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/479-riddle-24dec44.jpg

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/353-hinchey-14nov44.jpg

 

This is a document from 19 April 1944 allowing 75hg at all army airforce Mustangs.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/75inch-clearance-v-1650-7.jpg

 

Address the stronger arguments, not the weaker arguments, and pray like hell the 109/190 pilot isn't experienced too. Your opponents sound like they were not.smilewink.gif

 

+1


Edited by Solty

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

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Address the stronger arguments, not the weaker arguments, and pray like hell the 109/190 pilot isn't experienced too. Your opponents sound like they were not.:smilewink:

 

Oh I don't disagree with you that the 109K outperforms the P-51D, mate. Don't get me wrong. But it sounds that your Mustang opponents were not that experienced either. :smilewink:

 

In all sims it's always the same debate. Spitfire Ia vs Bf.109E-4, Yak-1 vs Bf.109F-4, P-51D vs Bf.109K-4. The 109 always outclimbs its opponent. Any pilot worth his salt knows that a 109 with an altitude advantage is really bad news for you if you are on the receiving end.

 

Most experienced 109 pilots don't engage unless they have an altitude advantage. If the odds are not in their favour, they generally bug out and regain the initiative once they are from a safe distance. Any Experten won't give you a single chance to shoot him because he knows the advantages of his machine over his opponent's and is smart enough not to put himself in a vulnerable position.

 

The only way to beat a 109 is to engage from an energy advantage AND with a wingman. I've flown hundreds of hours against them and once you know how to deal with them, you can shoot them down whether you fly a Spitfire, a LaGG, a Yak, a Hurricane or even a potato. I fly in online campaigns most of the time, where having 10 vs 10 aircraft going at it is not uncommon, and I know from personal experience (and from lots and lots of book reading) that the chaos of battle nullifies a lot of the 109's advantages if they are careless enough to fight on "even" terms. Some pilots thrive in chaos and are very good at dealing with it, while some pilots can't fight worth a darn unless they have a clean 1 vs 1 fight.

 

I am not very good at 1v1 fights. But don't ask me how or why, I always perform much, much better with a wingman. No matter the plane.

 

EDIT: After an interesting discussion via PM, I must say that yes, 150 oct fuel would be a good idea for allied planes.


Edited by Charly_Owl
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funny, I am just wondering if all this everlasting discussions regarding which red or blue plane is better or not, correct or not will ever end with the proper map, proper ground units etc :)

 

My last two engagements in Mustang: the one before the last I scored hits on 190, then he disengaged; the last sortie I did shoot down 109;

And guess what!? I never exceeds 61/3000, I dont use WEP at all ;)

 

And not to forget, it is obvious from online stats that the Mustang is the most favorite craft among all allied WWII airplanes in DCS.. ha ha.. :D

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I'm a bit late to the discussion here, but I do have a few thoughts, I'm not sure if many of you have tried the game Aces High, while the graphics are a bit "old school" the game itself is pretty damn fun, it would be awesome if they could get something like that going here, obviously the number of aircraft are limited at this point, but in the long run it would certainly be fun as hell and it would probably attract tons of people.

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Right now my bigest problem is fps drops.But...

 

Right now it's easy on the 109 side. But after the spit 14 arives it's going to be super duper easy on the spitfire side :D . You just turn until you get within 3 meters and shoot. With the 109 you have to deflection shoot and stuff ..

 

I don't care about easy side hard side.I would have wanted a fw190 A, but sice we're talking about difficulty ....


Edited by otto
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