Having trouble finding targets

Hey there.

Well the title says it all really, I seem to be completely unable to find targets in DCS A-10C no matter what method I use. Be it TGP or the naked eye. Really puts a downer on the experience when the rest of your flight annihalates all ground targets on the first run! Is there another way (preferably without using labels) to achieve visual contact?

Cheers

Do you use any of Controls / View cockpit / cockpit view zoom in and out?

I zoom in on my TGP screen our outside the pit if I know where to scan since foremost use combination eye-balls MK1 supported by briefing, map + JTAC if available.

Other way is, two ship formation, one flies ahead and tries to draw some fire.

Maybe graphics settings are limiting you?

Scanning an area with the TGP can be futile. I finally had to learn how to use the A-10s systems. Open the F10 map and select a target. The coodinates can be seen in the lower left window. Write them down and learn how to load those coordinates in your CDU to create a waypoint. After the waypoint has been created use the steerpoint selector switch to bring it up on the HUD. Using your TAD, hook that waypoint with TMS up short then open your TGP and slave it to the hooked waypont using China Hat Forward. Your TGP should now be looking at the target you selected on the map. It takes time to learn these steps but until you do you will never progress to become efficient in combat. Try to find a multiplayer group to fly with that has experience and can walk you through this stuff while talking on Teamspeak. That's the best way to get up to speed in a hurry and although it doesn't replace learning from the manual it will make learning a lot more fun.

Cheers

Yeah ive got my zoom controls set to work with my cougars range axis so its extremely convenient. Im limited to using one of my joystick hats as my view controls which ill admit is less than great but I live in new Zealand and track ir costs an arm and a leg here so I havent gotten around to purchasing one yet. Being a falcon 4 veteran im used to using the f-16s terrain following radar. Hmmmm I guess I may have to sit tight and wait until track ir becomes an option :cry: my resolution is maxed btw. Thankyou for your reply

Oh hey blooze

Funny you should say that. I just finished figuring out the coordinate input and CDU waypoint systems for use with JTAC. That is likely the best option but seems slightly long winded especially in a fast paced scenario. Maybe ill just have to get my efficiency up :P cheers mate

During previous discussions on the matter, some people made a very good point that we're not supposed to search the entire battlefield with the TGP. The A-10C (or whatever aircraft) is usually there for a specific purpose, and the method "find and destroy all targets" is only useful in rather simple "Search & Destroy" missions.

In most cases, the task is...

- to destroy some very specific target: then there should be a waypoint

- to assist troops on the ground: then there should be a JTAC

I think targets are extremely difficult to spot, especially from up high where I'm protected against AAA and MANPADs. So I prefer missions with a clear objective.

In the real jet, they already have a helmet mounted cueing system which must be totally awesome for CAS. "Our" DCS A-10C is much older, so we have to revert to other strategies.

One such strategy is to visually locate a target (e.g. by its tracers), keep it eyeballed, fly straight towards it and put the TDC (HUD cursor) on it. TMS Forward Short to stabilize, then TMS Forward Long to make it SPI and then immediately break away. Then you can slave all to SPI and refine the search in the TGP. It goes without saying that you should be doing this well outside of the target's engagement range. :)

In the mission I just flew, there were tons of air defenses and we decided to decimate them. One of the guys made a low pass while the others got eyes and sensors on the bad guys as described above. That way we were able to kill quite a bit of the air defenses, though it probably wasn't the main scope of the mission. But it was a whole lot of fun and worked quite well. :thumbup:

Slayer,

What Blooze said re the F10 map and writing down the coordinates. All ^^^ good advice here.

Once you get 3 or more coordinates written down, the next time you are on the ground getting ready to go, enter all of those coordinate sets into your CDU, and give each one a good name, too.

You can also make a flight path from these, and see that on the TAD.

There's a neat trick for entering CDU data. Make the Space Bar a Modifier and map your QWERTY and 0-9 into your Controls with this Modifier. That way you can press and hold the Space Bar and type into your CDU using your KB.

WC

I hate to be a party pooper here but personally, I thinks its kinda cheap and on the line of cheating to use the map view to find targets,, alot of servers wont even allow that,, I personally found many threads on here over the years addressing this topic,, all good reading. I prefer to slew the TGP to the waypoint / Target area and orbit. then I start searching with adjusting WHOT to BHOT,, and adjusting gain,,, it can be a struggle for the targets hidden near buildings etc, but thats what is all about. Another thing I do is if I see tracers going up,,, I set my HUd as SOI,, come back around and when I either see the tracers or the area I think they were coming from I slew the HUD sensor to that spot, then TMS up Sort, then I also TMS Right to make it a mark point,, then I scan that area while I orbit,, takes a few minutes indeed, but I typically find it while in orbit,, that mode allows me to stay heads down. Labels? Not if you want to be as realistic as you can be,,,,

Slayer,

What Blooze said re the F10 map and writing down the coordinates. All ^^^ good advice here.

 

Once you get 3 or more coordinates written down, the next time you are on the ground getting ready to go, enter all of those coordinate sets into your CDU, and give each one a good name, too.

 

You can also make a flight path from these, and see that on the TAD.

 

 

There's a neat trick for entering CDU data. Make the Space Bar a Modifier and map your QWERTY and 0-9 into your Controls with this Modifier. That way you can press and hold the Space Bar and type into your CDU using your KB.

 

WC

Although these methods mentioned are all good ways of accomplishing the goal, I hate it when after entering the info. you get there and another flight has already destroyed the targets. really annoying to me. :cry:

If I'm going to spot targets with MK1eyeball I like to slow it down and get at a reasonably low altitude. If I'm unsure if there's a threat I like to get a good standoff distance (10-20nm), then set my ALT autopilot with a few degrees right wing to get me in an orbit. I'll then use CTRL+KPD0,6 to freeze on my right MFCD and take my time spotting. If I spot the target and the situation is right, I find the quickest way to set sensors on it is to engage it with guns/ordinance to set my ZMark (auto mark every time you fire at something) then switch to mark and slave all to it. Your mark will change every time you engage so you'll be reslewed to the last target you fired upon.

Here's a previous posts on the matter:

Spotting Targets:

1. MK1 Eyeball

2. TGP AG

3. TGP AA

4. Maverick Slave

 

General Notes - Be sure to utilize one of the best aspects of your Hawg.. the ability to fly slow. I like to get 8-10k, decrease my thrust to 70-75% to maintain between 180 and 200ks, and use my autopilot so I can focus on my MFDs or out the canopy. Remember to keep your eye on the TAD and maintain situational awareness.. always know where you are. Depending on the terrain and my separation, I'll use either a box pattern with Alt/Hdg autopilot or an slow circular orbit with alt autopilot.

 

1. MK1 Eyeball - You'd be suprised how much you can spot with your eyes. I like to zoom in and change my TrackIR to Precision Mode ( I use alt+F7, default is just F7 ). Look for dust plumes for moving targets. For non-moving targets look for an area where secondary fires are already burning from the battle. If you have stationary targets that are masked by terrain and haven't been engaged, they can be very difficult to find. In this case I just send in my wingman.. he has impeccable vision! If you do spot a target with your eye there are a number of ways that you can go about getting your TGP on it. Since I'm already viewing it with my eye, I'll usually just bring the aircraft about and use the Target Designation Cue. This is the box that's slaved to your TVV until you make HUD SPI and slew.. you can slew the TDC down to our target, then TMS ForLong to make it SPI. The other method I've used is to compare the terrain to the TAD, get a rough idea of distance with your eye (at 10k ft, objects even with your wingtip are about 10-12nm away.. use your wing as a ruler), slew the TGP diamond over to the approx area while watching the TAD. You can also hook your TAD cursor so you can get a hdg/dis to the spot. You can then create a markpoint and slave all to SPI:

*Make TAD SOI

*Change to Hook Cursor

*Change FOV to EXP1 or 2 (china forShort)

*Slew cursor around and you can see hdg/dis on lower right

*Create a markpoint then set it as SPI, slave all to SPI to view on TGP

 

 

2. TGP AG - Besides the obvious 'slew around till you hit paydirt' aspects, there are a few things I like to do:

*Hit CTRL+kpd0 then kpd6 to view only the right MFD

*Use coolie down to swap MFDs often and check your position on the TAD

*Change from BHOT to WHOT to CCD often to reveal targets by contrast

*Turn your gain all the way up (OSB 19/20?) then back 1 or 2 until the terrain isn't washed out. This will make objects jump out nicely.

*Refocus often (DMS Left Short)

*Change FOV wide/narrow often

 

3. TGP AA - I've had some success in finding objects using TGP AA mode. You'll notice that, unlike AG mode, AA RATES will automatically point out any obvious silhouette with an additional moving cross. The problem with that is it points to buildings, electric poles, etc, as well as aircraft and ground vehicles. To use this effectively you have to have a good standoff distance of 10+nm. Make sure the search area is within a 45deg cone from your nose. You can make an object SPI from this mode, and mark it, just like TGP.AG mode.

 

4. Maverick Slave - I've had little success using this method, atleast with MAV-Ds. Although the mav computer will lock on silhouettes, it's hard (since mav is WIP) to get a good visual description of what your mav is tracking unless you're very close (<5nm or <)

 

Hope these methods cut your training time. I'm looking forward to reading about other methods.

As I've said in MANY other threads....Slow = Death.

I can visually acquire targets while flying 200 AGL at 300 KIAS, tip in and accomplish a Two Target Strafe, throttles at 750 ITT to Max. It just takes practice.

The best advice I can give though if you're not already flying MP is do so. Find a virtual organization that meets your needs. You will learn a lot more faster flying someone's wing than reading forums.

Im usually just above 13 K feet orbiting at a speed of about 160 - 180,,,, that gives me alot of time to stay heads down and poke around,,,,

Im usually just above 13 K feet orbiting at a speed of about 160 - 180,,,, that gives me alot of time to stay heads down and poke around,,,,

13,000 feet...that's your first mistake. While you're "comfortably" heads down a Mig is going to sneak up and blow you out of the sky.

Why would you call it my 1st mistake? Im not the one struggling with finding targets. Im just offering my experience. And most of the time, Im in coms with CAP,,,, so under typical circumstances, I put myself in that position when appropriate,, which is most of the time, and thats because I worked it out with CAP,,,,

Thankyou everybody for your contributions. Wow this is turning a sizeable topic. What im getting from your answers (and from the last four hours I just spent on DCS) the best methods for acquiring targets relies on several factors....

1-Mission assets, such as JTAC (data transfer on TAD/coordinate entry into CDU) or relying on preset steerpoints.

2-Battlefield elements, no enemy air cover means a safe high altitude orbit and lengthy use of TGP.

3-Mission Type/Requirements, I.e C-SAR is most likely fast paced and requiring quick visual contact thus requiring high speed low level passes or using your flight to "troll" for targets.

All in all I feel fairly certain that it all will come down to personal preference and as always, experience. Great to hear of everybodies methods, keep em coming! :thumbup:

If I can throw in my 3 cents here:

1) Don't underestimate the good, old Mk1 Eyeball. First of all - it really is possible to spot targets this way (if your target is firing tracers, it's even better). You have much wider view than with the TGP, and most importantly - you are able not only to find the target, but also to memorize its position relative to some landmarks around, which makes it much easier to find should you loose sight of it (or should your TGP stabilize itself on the tip of the mountain obstructing the view to your target).

2) When you use TGP, make sure to change the modes, but also to play with contrast / brightness values. It can make a really huuuge difference. Also, for each mode you will have to adjust the settings separately, but quite often it is worth taking the time.

3) When you locate the target, it is a good habit to immediately create a Markpoint on it (you can later even name it using the CDU for easier recognition).

Hope this helps!

Also, don't forget that you can create a mark with only the TAD cursor. There have been a lot of cases where I see AA smoke trail origin, but I have to terrain mask to evade so I don't have time to slew TGP with eyes on. In these cases I'll duck behind some terrain and set a mark for the general area of the target using my TAD. I'll then slave my sensors to the mark and come out of mask with my TGP close enough that I can lock it in pretty quickly. This gives me safe popup options I wouldn't otherwise have. See my previous post in this thread for more info.

1) Don't underestimate the good, old Mk1 Eyeball. First of all - it really is possible to spot targets this way (if your target is firing tracers, it's even better). You have much wider view than with the TGP, and most importantly - you are able not only to find the target, but also to memorize its position relative to some landmarks around, which makes it much easier to find should you loose sight of it (or should your TGP stabilize itself on the tip of the mountain obstructing the view to your target).

Thankyou everybody for your replies, im learning some interesting things here. After flying nearly 48 hours in two weeks ive come up with my own method of finding my targets, here it is....

-First of all, consult the mission planner. I know this may be viewed as cheating but in todays battlefield its likely that the same level of Intel is supplied.

-Using the mission planner I usually copy a simple map detailing the shapes of towns in the target area, rivers with prominent bends or roads with obvious intersections. This way I can identify specific areas at a greater standoff range than if I were searching for individual targets.

-I generally load my hog with 2 GBU-10s and 6 AGM-65Ds. I first deploy a CAP unit when possible and make a pass at 14000ft towards enemy territory. After releasing one GBU I wait roughly 30secs to allow time for realignment with the release cue and then turn 180 degrees for my second pass heading back towards friendly territory. I always prosecute the left and right most targets first, otherwise known as 'bracketing' your enemies. This way I have an indication of my targets locations marked by two big smoke columns which are visible from a long way off.

-I then drop to 4000 feet and begin prosecuting with my mavericks now that I know where to look.

Other tips which any A-10 pilot MUST know include

-working with JTAC (type 1 and 3, havent come across type 2 yet)

-Entering coordinates into CDU.

-Working with other friendly packages (CAP especially)

-practise pre/post attack procedures e.g popping flares before and after attack and jinking at low altitudes! (easy to forget)

Cheers everybody for your tips! Keep them coming!!!!!

GBU-10 is overkill for most targets. GBU-12/38 much lighter but has same effect on single armor target. I suggest switching to CBU-105. Cluster bombs are easy to use and very effective against groups of armor and it "fire-and-forget system" and their submunition have a automatic target detector. So you don't need to seek every single tank in group - you can spot one of them and drop 105-s, the rest tanks in the zone will got hit. Good method to destroy targets hiding in woods.

Height must be at minimum 18 000 feet so you can avoid most heat-seeking SAM's and weak radar-guided like Roland.

I usually like to get above any air defenses 20000 + then set up an orbit around the target area and bank so the TGP doesn't get blinded by other parts of the plane and concentrate on that target area. Study the map and as said above record the coordinates and input them into the CDU to create a waypoint that you can slave all of your sensors to. Also use the different setting on your TGP for WHITEHOT, Cold and IR.

Everyone that's posting they fly at FL180 or higher, I'm guessing you're in SP missions with no air threats because you wouldn't last long otherwise.

Unless of course you are on MP and you have CAP

Unless of course you are on MP and you have CAP

CAP may not catch everything.

I would love to learn how to fly low and not get shot down. I don't go low until I'm relatively certain the air threats have been destroyed. Are there any tutorials available on tactics. I hate flying at those upper altitudes.

I've "perfected" a technique I call "The Crazy Yeti" you or your wing man flies low across the target area looking for tracer fire and you create a mark point when you're over or abeam it. This approach often results in you taking hits... so I usually persuade my wing man to do it ;)

The "Crazy Yeti" is not for everyone and often results in death, so the more conventional way is just to practice using pan and zoom from the cockpit, you'll be surprised how quickly you get adept at spotting targets.