Critique of a Multiple JDAM strike.

Hi

I've included a track of a 4 bomb drop of JDAM's. Forgive the Autopilot as I'm concentrating more on targeting and bomb release in the track. Although I hit all 4 targets I've repeated the exercise multiple times and some of the bombs fall close but I'm lucky and the explosion destroys the targets, but I'm hoping for more pinpoint accuracy and not having to reply on collateral damage. So any constructive feedback appreciated.

Thanx

Jdam1.trk

I thought jdams were rippled single. Usually if you focus too much on attacking a specific target, you end up with damage. Perhaps snoops or paulrkii or one of these hardcore 476th fellas could chime in on that.

2 things I do differently:

1 - Change the TGP to point track instead of area track and zoom in as far as possible with the DMS up command, couldn't tell if you did or not.

2 - Use the laser when creating the mark points to eliminate range errors, just laze, mark, move to next target, laze, mark, and so on.

AFAIK the bombs weren't rippled. There was several rapid bomb release "sounds" during and after the 4th bomb release. Looking at the F7 view and debriefing it displayed only 4 bombs. Might have been a glitch in the replay.

All I can say is reiterate what txmtb said. Lase while creating markpoints. JDAMs aren't pinpoint accurate in DCS. They usually kill MBTs, but not always.

Thanx for the lase advice. I didn't know you could ripple the JDAM's. Whats the proceess for lasing? Just pressing the nosewheel steering button after turning the laser on?

Just pressing the nosewheel steering button after turning the laser on?

By default you have to hold down the nosewheel steering while making the TGP your SPI with TMS forward long. I usually change the laser to "toggle" in the TGP menu, so I don't have to hold the button down all the time.

To get maximum accuracy it is best to mark the targets from the same direction as the attack is performed.

@WildBillKelsoe: They cant be rippled but dropped in one run ;). Just put down some markpoints over your targets, make your HUD SPI and quickly cycle to the next markpoint after each drop.

DCS Multiple JDAM drop videos on Utube created by Excessiveheadspace are a good resource for what U are talking about.

I've looked at Headspaces videos and he doesn't lase?

By default you have to hold down the nosewheel steering while making the TGP your SPI with TMS forward long.QUOTE]

 

In my track I never used the SPI command in TGP at all. I just marked targets while using my TGP as SOI. Also I use an X-52 pro and my TMS Commands are in Mode 1 and my Nosewheel steering command is on Mode 2. So I can't do this in my current setup if I'm reading this right??

It's a dual use button, when on the ground it turns on/off NWS, in the air it turns on/off the laser emitter. Like Gate-5 said, if you change it to latch, a press turns on the laser, and a press turns it off.

If the TGP is "looking" at a target from a distance, it calculates the coordinates from the DTS database in the CDU. As a result if you point it at a truck the TGP actually points at the ground close, but behind the truck (see picture).

Now if you activate the laser, the IFFCC gets the rangemeasured by the laser beam and recalculates the coordinates correctly.

The range to target needs to be less than app 8nm. Beyond 8nm the laser is not effective and will not give target elevation thus will revert to DTS information.

cheers

Hans

The range to target needs to be less than app 8nm. Beyond 8nm the laser is not effective and will not give target elevation thus will revert to DTS information.

 

cheers

Hans

Interesting detail - but makes sense. Have you tested this in-game or how do you came to that conclusion?

Lessons learned in this case: better use a coordinate directly in front/beneath the target when further away and/or at very shallow slant angles.

Interesting detail - but makes sense. Have you tested this in-game or how do you came to that conclusion?

 

Lessons learned in this case: better use a coordinate directly in front/beneath the target when further away and/or at very shallow slant angles.

Tested in game at Kobuleti old air field which we use as Range, DTS elevation is app. 27feet IIRC. If you start off at 12nm with TGP on a target you can switch laser on and notice that elevation doesn't change. When around 9nm the elevation spikes to somw 800ft and then starts to drop. It finally settles at 33ft @8nm. Here you can also turn off laser and notice that elevation changes ro DTS 27ft.

I am not by my PC so the 27 & 33ft should not be taken as accurate data but are in the vicinty of actual. Read somewhere that Eddie (476th) mentioned 12nm being beyond effective range both RL and ind DCS which got me testing :-)

Cheers

Hans

Acording to my experience in multiple JDAM drops, you don't necessary need to lase the target before you make your markpoints. If you don't lase make sure, that you are pointing to the bottom of the target and not the top. Usually if you are in FLIR mode in the TGP and you use POINT instead of AREA, and lock the tarket with the TGP will give you a good markpoint for hitting the target.

Also I find unnecessary to make an entire new flightplan for a multiple JDAM drop. Plan ahead, and mark your targets accoring to your final attack HDG. If you do so you won't need to mess with the CDU. Also you can use your HOTAS buttons (I think it is TMS up/down) to switch trough STRPs, if you make them a SOI. I

If you have any fruther questions feel free to write me! :)

Again thanks for all replies. Appreciated.

can't watch the track right now. General hints: create markpoints with laserraging. You can set TGP to active steerpoint with china hat aft long, so you will always see the currently selected markpoint.

When a markpoint is off the target, skip it or if you have enough time correct the tgp position and make it spi. Dont forget to rest SPI to Steerpoint for the next target.

Don't attack MBT's with GBU38, their accuracy is good enough for light armor, but heavy armor will usually survive as the bomb hits 1 or 2m off.

Did'nt F-111s invent tank-plinking in the first gulf-war by decimating Iraqi main-battle tanks with GBU-12s. Same bomb in essence as the GBU-38 right? Why the hell would you hull down a tank on the modern battle-field. Someone educate me. Although, I suppose the iraq's did'nt bury any T-72 so probably alot of those tanks ( over 900 destroyed by air power ) were most T-55 or less.

can't watch the track right now. General hints: create markpoints with laserraging. You can set TGP to active steerpoint with china hat aft long, so you will always see the currently selected markpoint.

 

When a markpoint is off the target, skip it or if you have enough time correct the tgp position and make it spi. Dont forget to rest SPI to Steerpoint for the next target.

 

Don't attack MBT's with GBU38, their accuracy is good enough for light armor, but heavy armor will usually survive as the bomb hits 1 or 2m off.

In my experience the 38 JDAM is spot on if you do it right.

If the tank is not moving it is quick and efficient, killing even T-80 tanks most of the time.

If they move use LGBs, if they are static use JDAM...

As said before get laser range correction for the SPI and don't pull any hard maneuvers on release if possible and it will kill the tank.

I just dropped some 38s on the ESL server and they were off by 1-2m but still killed T-90s. Targets were designated by markpoint with laser on at distances below 8Nm and from attack heading. I'd have expected that they would fall a bit short because of the measurement to the front side of the targets but they were also off to the side.

Maybe wind makes the difference, I'll do some trials when I have time.

Up to 5m or so they will kill almost anything that isn't a bunker. That's a direct hit. If they hit more than 10m away they might not kill them.

In real life I'm pretty sure that a tank won't survive a Mk-82 bomb hitting 20m or even 30m away, but fragments aren't correctly modeled in DCSW.

Up to 5m or so they will kill almost anything that isn't a bunker. That's a direct hit. If they hit more than 10m away they might not kill them.

In real life I'm pretty sure that a tank won't survive a Mk-82 bomb hitting 20m or even 30m away, but fragments aren't correctly modeled in DCSW.

My guess on that: even light armor would survive a Mk82 that explodes 30m away. Unmodeled frag in DCS is a hughe issue, but roughly 200lbs of explosives is nothing a fully grown tank really has to worry about unless it is a direct or very close hit.

Perhaps I wasn't as precise as I should have been:

It depends on lots of factors. The explosives in a Mk-82 bomb (some 170 lbs of TNT IIRC) might not be enough to destroy it, but I wouldn't exactly say it won't have to worry about it.

IIRC there was an incident (in Iraq? not sure) where a MBT was severely damaged by a makeshift bomb on the side of the road, with roughly the same amount of explosives.

Otherwise I only have numbers for infantry, and those look dire. But that's what I would expect. For armored targets I don't have official numbers in my documents. But that's an interesting topic, I'll go ahead and try to find some sources about that.

As I understand it, from reliable sources a main battle tank needs a 500lb bomb to hit within a meter or two to cause a k-kill. This seems to be accurately modelled. People are tough to kill. From talking to many pilots and seeing pod footage, many a times guys will run away from a bomb impact between 5-10 meters away from a gbu-38/12.

I would love to see those sources!