AIM-120 on the Tomcat

I'm curious, why has the AIM-120 never been implemented on the Tomcat? I guess it's just the usual "no need, no money -> not worth it" but maybe there are more specific reasons for this? They did at least test it (see picture), but what was the conclusion?

I think they figured that with already having the Pheonix which is active terminal homing, and having the AIM-7 that it wasn't necessary, which seems odd to me.

Amraam integration was deemed too expensive.

Amraam integration was deemed too expensive.

Or at least too expensive given the limited Tomcat fleet numbers and ongoing gradual withdrawal from service, especially given the expected role in potential upcoming conflicts (particularly the need for a long range strike fighter on the carriers after the A-6 was withdrawn and before the SH is available in numbers) so the money was diverted to LANTIRN integration instead (according to some sources).

aim-54 is good enough with 60kg tnt in it.

it could explosive 4 airecraft at once, could 120 do it?

XD

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Tomcat was designed to intercept bombers an shoot them down (or at least threaten them) without being engaged by the enemy escort.

After the cold war was over this scenario was highly unlikely, but the the f/a-18 was already in service so there was no need to upgrade the old tomcat because they already had a new fighter with these capabilities and better all round multirole design.

I think I read something about the cost to replace/upgrade the radar and targeting computer complex would have been to expensive, as the radar on the F-14 couldn't guide an AIM-120... Don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I just remember to have read something along that line and it's far too late here to do a thorough search for the facts. :D

I think I read something about the cost to replace/upgrade the radar and targeting computer complex would have been to expensive, as the radar on the F-14 couldn't guide an AIM-120... Don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I just remember to have read something along that line and it's far too late here to do a thorough search for the facts. :D

I read that as well. The radar they had was tailor made for the Phoenix anyway.

f-14 was able to fire the 120.... f-14 was equip with the 120a since 1986.

f-14 was able to fire the 120.... f-14 was equip with the 120a since 1986.

That's weird because the first AIM-120A was delivered in 1991

That's weird because the first AIM-120A was delivered in 1991

Explain please.

From F-16.net:

"In September 1991, IOC (Initial Operational Capability) was achieved for the AMRAAM on USAF F-15 aircraft. The F-16 followed in January 1992, and the Navy [on F/A-18s] in October 1993. Full-rate production of the missile was approved in April 1992, marking Milestone III."

I'd like to know your source for F-14s being equipped with the weapon a full 5 years before they were operational with the USAF and 7 years before they were operational with the US Navy.

Perhaps a modified testbed?

You might want to check the publishing date on that. My guess is that it was originally published before 1986... or it is just poor research by the author.

The cost for AMRAAM integration into the AWG-9/APG-71 was high, but was scheduled. After Desert Storm, that money was diverted to pay for the LANTIRN integration and "bombcat" upgrades for the F-14. They did figure the AIM-54 was good enough to see until the F-14s retirement, and the AIM-54C(high power) in fact used the AMRAAM TWT. So the last AIM-54s were pretty good.

Some nice infos here, thanks guys :thumbup:

From a quite comprehensive web page about the F-14:

http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-aim120.htm

You might want to check the publishing date on that. My guess is that it was originally published before 1986... or it is just poor research by the author.

This looks like the AERO magazines ( I collected them aswell :P ) and they came out first in 1983 I believe. Don't have this specific one with an in detail "review" ( must be one after No. 165 ) but in No. 14 from late 83 early 84 the 120's aren't mentioned on the F-14.

So bottom line is that F-14 does not have AIM-120 AMRAAM capability.

AFAIK yes. It was planned in the 80s but wasn't used operationally.

I wouldn't trust that (old) paper too much because they even made the Aim-7 loadout wrong.

Under the rear belly Sparrows aren't side by side, they are inline like in this picture.

So bottom line is that F-14 does not have AIM-120 AMRAAM capability.

Well it's a tad more complicated than that. The F-14 was never deployed with AMRAAMs. The change was relatively minor, it was only that the Navy wanted LGB capability on their Tomcats due to perceived future mission requirements that they went with that rather than the AMRAAM. If the cold war had still been going on with the extravagant defense budgets, then the Tomcat would have had AMRAAM capability.

The question is will LN make their Tomcat with the potential AMRAAM upgrade available or not.

I think that Vandy One of the VX-4 squadron was AMRAAM capable, but I cant remember where I read about that, so in short I can't provide any proof. :(

Well it's a tad more complicated than that. The F-14 was never deployed with AMRAAMs. The change was relatively minor, it was only that the Navy wanted LGB capability on their Tomcats due to perceived future mission requirements that they went with that rather than the AMRAAM. If the cold war had still been going on with the extravagant defense budgets, then the Tomcat would have had AMRAAM capability.

 

The question is will LN make their Tomcat with the potential AMRAAM upgrade available or not.

That is a good question and I hope the answer from LS is no. I think that the Mig-21 is an exceptional add-on. I can't wait to get my hands ont he F-14. The F14 is ging to be my Forth Gen ride of choice. I hope it doesn't have the AIM-120. After spending time using the Mig-21bis in multiplayer, I can't stand the SPAMRAAM. :megalol: When I am using the F-14, I want Red players to have fun, too. I don't want Red players to go through the trouble of a start up and take off, just to have six AIM-120's go off in their faces, without detecting the launch or being able to do a thing about it. How is that fun? :(

It is my understanding that the AIM-7 was really for going after bombers and that prior to Kosovo, we didn't really have a fool proof BVR vs fighters capability. I think the AIM-7 only successfully hit Iraqi fighters one out of four times, against Iraqi fighters flying straight and level, during the Persian Gulf War I. I think we are better off if the F-14 is more of a WVR fighter, without a reliable BVR anti fighter capability. It will lead to more rewarding and exciting game play, for both sides.

:thumbup: MJ

That is a good question and I hope the answer from LS is no. I think that the Mig-21 is an exceptional add-on. I can't wait to get my hands ont he F-14. The F14 is ging to be my Forth Gen ride of choice. I hope it doesn't have the AIM-120. After spending time using the Mig-21bis in multiplayer, I can't stand the SPAMRAAM. :megalol: When I am using the F-14, I want Red players to have fun, too. I don't want Red players to go through the trouble of a start up and take off, just to have six AIM-120's go off in their faces, without detecting the launch or being able to do a thing about it. How is that fun? :(

 

It is my understanding that the AIM-7 was really for going after bombers and that prior to Kosovo, we didn't really have a fool proof BVR vs fighters capability. I think the AIM-7 only successfully hit Iraqi fighters one out of four times, against Iraqi fighters flying straight and level, during the Persian Gulf War I. I think we are better off if the F-14 is more of a WVR fighter, without a reliable BVR anti fighter capability. It will lead to more rewarding and exciting game play, for both sides.

 

:thumbup: MJ

AMRAAM integration won't bring that sort of gameplay. The way that the AMRAAM currently is in game, it has absolutely abysmal range compared to what it should have, so engagement ranges won't go up, even though the F-14 has a superior radar. That sort of play however will likely come as a result of the Phoenix integration, which because LN is going to be modeling it, it will likely live up to its real capability, rather than the parachute equipped Slammers the Eagles are currently throwing around.

I feel the opposite, I hope that AMRAAMs are integrated onto the F-14 for a few reasons, but most important of all, I hold no illusions as to the Phoenix being allowed in servers. Some servers have already banned some of the MiG-21 missiles for 'overperforming', and when the Phoenix hits, it'll last at most a week before servers start removing it because players will whine about being splashed from 80nm away. In light of that, without the AMRAAM, the F-14 stops being a competitive multiplayer choice and becomes another gimmick fighter in PvP combat, which would be really sad.

I don't see how you think turning the F-14, one of the premier long range fighters in the world, into a short range knife fighter will be positive for gameplay. Without AMRAAMs, and without Phoenix, the F-14 will just get sealclubbed by F-15s operating as they always do. SARH missiles cannot compete with ARH missiles.