Beating the refueling horse to its death

Click on the link I posted, written using real world docs.

Cool.

Do the Brits and US use opposite flow patterns? Like driving on the wrong side of the road?

Beating the refueling horse to its death

Cool.

 

Do the Brits and US use opposite flow patterns? Like driving on the wrong side of the road?

I don't have access to UK docs, I used A-10C specific documents.

Not to mention being on the Kc-135 on the esta team watching them transition.

With the F/A-18 and F-14 approaching, what's everyones opinion on probe & drogue vs. boom -- which is more difficult? I've never flown a probe & drogue refueling but from what I've seen in RL videos, catching the basket is pretty difficult, but I guess staying connected is somewhat easier than with the boom. But I can't tell whether there's any truth to this observation.

In game you can actually refuel an A-10 off the IL-76's drogue. Just drive your a/a refueling port into the basket. Gamey, but it works for a interesting change. Catching the drogue is harder then the boom, but staying connected is much easier. Concentrate on the IL not the drogue when trying to connect.

I prefer to focus on the boom instead of the tanker tbh , i pitch my camera up a little , zoom out a little for better FOV and then i freeze my trackir in that poition.

I fly behind the tanker, and slowly creep up to him. When i make contact i focus on the boom and by then i'm all trimmed out for whatever pattern the tanker is flying in at that moment , so then its just a matter of very slight roll inputs and a bunch of throttle control (this is the trickiest part for me)

also.. this may sound strange but i find it easyer to refuel off a tanker that's banking. no idea why

I just think that curves aren't necessary or the lack of one any sort of obstacle to success in AAR while the downsides to having any curve on your stick affect all other phases of flight to such a degree that its not even worth considering in my opinion. [...]

[...]I'm not gonna beat the curve thing to death, but the extra responsiveness of the 0/0 is just as much a benefit to tanking as the higher resolution of a curve, [...]

You aren't? :D

My advice is that players should find a setup that they're comfortable with.

I've never perceived a curve to make my inputs slow or sluggish, quite the opposite. A curve adjusted to my preference means I have very fine control around the center, right where I need it the most, which is especially true for aerial refueling.

I acknowledge that 0/0 works best for some, I disagree that it'll work best for everyone. And I won't get rid of my curves just because you dislike them. On a related note, I wouldn't advise anyone to use any particular curve (or none at all), because our approach to flying the sim, our hardware and our expectations are all different. So whatever works best for people is good IMO.

I'll ask the real A-10 pilots in my reserve unit what they have their curves set to.:music_whistling:

You mean the real A-10 pilots that sit at home with a consumer level flight stick on their desk? TBH, I'd be interested in their opinion about the curve issue.

You mean the real A-10 pilots that sit at home with a consumer level flight stick on their desk? TBH, I'd be interested in their opinion about the curve issue.

You enjoy that, I'll continue to enjoy taking to real A-10 pilots.

I'll ask the real A-10 pilots in my reserve unit what they have their curves set to.:music_whistling:

 

:joystick:

 

:pilotfly:

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=55

Hand them an USB joystick and I, too, will laugh.

;o)

Hand them an USB joystick and I, too, will laugh.

 

;o)

They wouldn't waste their time they get to play with the real thing.

Could you? Seriously.. smart@ss responses aside.. Can you think of a way to determine from a hawg pilot if the ratio of axis response of DCS/TMWH is anywhere close to the ratio of axis response of the real Warthog stick to flight surfaces? I'll bet you a bottle of single malt it's not. Probably why axis tuning is necessary.

I'll ask the real A-10 pilots in my reserve unit what they have their curves set to.:music_whistling:

 

:joystick:

 

:pilotfly:

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=55

Could you? Seriously.. smart@ss responses aside.. Can you think of a way to determine from a hawg pilot if the ratio of axis response of DCS/TMWH is anywhere close to the ratio of axis response of the real Warthog stick to flight surfaces? I'll bet you a bottle of single malt it's not. Probably why axis tuning is necessary.

It's not necessary, I haven't used curves for over 4 years and didn't then for very long. But I'm not going to argue with people on the ED boards.

You enjoy that, I'll continue to enjoy taking to real A-10 pilots.

Well, yeah, that's my point. Since you do obviously talk to real A-10 pilots on a regular basis, what's their opinion on the curve issue for consumer grade hardware with DCS (or whatever other flightsim)?

It's not necessary, I haven't used curves for over 4 years and didn't then for very long. But I'm not going to argue with people on the ED boards.

 

I'll just stop sharing real wold knowledge and experience here. Anyone want to have a serious conversation come over to the 476th vFG.

:doh:

I have the greatest respect for you and the knowledge you have and ocassionally share here. But sometimes ...

Alright.. not funny.. who highjacked Snoopy's account?

It's not necessary, I haven't used curves for over 4 years and didn't then for very long. But I'm not going to argue with people on the ED boards.

 

I'll just stop sharing real wold knowledge and experience here. Anyone want to have a serious conversation come over to the 476th vFG.

I've never perceived a curve to make my inputs slow or sluggish, quite the opposite.

Well thats your perception, which is not mine.

All the rest of your post... well I'm not beating a dead horse right? :music_whistling:

Having stick curves is normal for a flight sim due to the fact that a desktop stick is much shorter than the real one.

But curves aren't a magic pill for mastering AAR. Lots and lots of practice is. It's like the process of learning to ride a bicycle where you gain the ability to balance by anticipating the reactions. If you react out of time then you'll start gyrating out of control. By the time you perceive you're too slow and then add throttle it's too late. Gaining the sense of predicting the control inputs is what's gained by practice.

Put the top mirror folded under the pear shaped boom attachment or the 4 little squares on the bottom of tail of the tanker. This helps me alot.

For me adjusting the curves was the key to success as well. I also had trouble to stay calm behind the tanker. Now I adjusted my curves to be less sensitive in the center. Especially the throttle curve, to be more accurate in the "center", helps me to stay at the correct speed and it only make small inputs. I have to mentikon I´m using the Hotas Cougar. What I heard from my flight mates the Warthog is better in this matter. I´m trying to AAR since 3 months and can get the tank filled up (from 2x1000lbs left) using 8-10 connections. Still too much time and not combat ready, but it is a good feeling to leave the tanker with a full tank (instead of shooting him down because of high amount of frustration).

Xoxen out

As to the OP, don't get frustrated man. With practice it will eventually click for you. There are things that make it more difficult in a game environment than real life and vice versa so don't fret. In general find a visual reference for your position, fly formation at that point, keep your eyes moving to different spots on the tanker, trim, and relax. For more techniques you can look through the interwebs and on the forums here, but realize that anyone can claim themselves an expert and give bad advice, so refer back to just practicing for yourself. Two things you can consider are pausing your track IR and a technique called "wash the box." Helps a lot of people.

Good luck ~

Oh, forgot to mention I would definitely stay off the rudder pedals when doing AR.

Howdy Tuk!

Here's the man I mentioned earlier in this thread who taught me the "wash the box" technique. It made all the difference in my AAR.. I was quickly able to connect and take on a full fuel load after I started using it. Johny2pt0, as a USAF Pilot, could you elaborate on this technique please? Also, to your personal taste, do you find the default curves of the TMWH to be likely anywhere close to the stick to flight surface ratio of the real Hawg?

Snoopy Topic: That's why I asked earlier if someone had highjacked his account (only partially in humor). I talked with him quite a bit via voice when we were testers when A-10 was being developed, and I would call him a humble and standup guy. I don't disagree concerning his comments.. but there must be some recent situation that triggered his frustration and tendency toward dismissal.. it seems out of character for him in my opinion. There seems to be a trend toward contention and internal turmoil on these forums of late. I address it in this post.

For me the solution was simple. Rather than endure the agonizing process of learning to do something that never will have the potential to simulate the real thing exactly, I just decided to forget about it and engage in the things that I enjoy about this game instead. In spite of what others may think, my self esteem remains intact. :music_whistling:

Is AAR working correctly now? If get a disconnect the tanker no longer allows reconnect nor responds to radio comms.

Did you cycle your receptacle before trying to establish contact again?

In 1.2.15 it works fine, not sure about latest update though. I just refueled to 9.4 in one go, took about 3 mins but now after 2 years, curves and throttle I am refuel certified.

In 1.2.15 it works fine, not sure about latest update though.

Confirmed, just flew a refueling training in 1.2.15.37241 and it worked fine, including several reconnects. As Sobek said, don't forget to cycle the system with the NWS/Lase/AR disconnect button.

Howdy Tuk!

Sup brah :)

Something important was moderated out of my post I see, so I'm going to repeat myself in a slightly different way as it's important for the health and welfare of the simming community here and teaching those that are having problems with certain things.

- Try not to let the naysayers get you down.

- It's not a crime to not know something.

- Be wary of grandiose claims of inside knowledge.

- Talking to people that do something and actually doing it yourself are completely different things.

I hope that was general enough in nature as to not break any forum rules...

My opinion is that you're better off if you avoid curves but depending on your joystick it may be unavoidable. If you have a linear progression you will be better off over a wide range of platforms as opposed to having different curves for everything. I don't see anything wrong with using a set curve pattern on every jet though to avoid a mechanical deficiency on your joystick though. Because of the limited throw as compared to a real stick it's never going to feel authentic. You'll always have much better fidelity with the real deal, so basically, do what you want. I would highly recommend keeping it as consistent as possible though.

Washing the box is basically what harm said already. There's a dead space around the central position of the stick. Moving the stick in a circular motion within this area helps some people because you get a sense of where the boundaries are on the dead zone and more importantly it helps keep the brain from fixating. Just be careful to not overdo it. Anyone observing from the outside shouldn't be able to see the jet doing anything...it should look like you're smooth as butter.