Su-27 vs F-15C

Shooting at max range gives a important thing away that can bring you in a disadvantage. You show your opponent that you are not confident. That you try to make him scared so you hope he reacts on that early (at least in DCS). You gave away your intention early so he has longer time to think about what his next move should be. Better to wait with that warning shot till you are a bit closer so he has no choice to react. Even that it's still a low Pk shot. It's hard to find that fine line fighting against a AIM-120C platform. But with flying in a two ship you can actually turn this into a advantage.

Just better hope that 29 nail doesn't have a later follow up R-77 coming your way, that would really put you in a pickle with your over confidence of ignoring the long range shot and underestimating your opponent. There are plenty of ways to play the harmless greenie.

Just better hope that 29 nail doesn't have a later follow up R-77 coming your way, that would really put you in a pickle with your over confidence of ignoring the long range shot and underestimating your opponent. There are plenty of ways to play the harmless greenie.

Nah, it's a 77. The standard minor course corrections towards the bandit are enough to defeat a adder launch from more than 10nmi.

Nah, it's a 77. The standard minor course corrections towards the bandit are enough to defeat a adder launch from more than 10nmi.

Who said greater than 10nmi, initial shot maybe but that plays as a nice bait to disguise further shots. Sorry I don't buy into letting my opponent having a free run to set up his attack unhindered. To win against your opponent trying to destroy his SA ranks higher than doing nothing.

The only reason not to fire early is if you're have some airquake killing spree in mind, in a server mostly full of people that don't know what they're doing.

Who said greater than 10nmi, initial shot maybe but that plays as a nice bait to disguise further shots. Sorry I don't buy into letting my opponent having a free run to set up his attack unhindered. To win against your opponent trying to destroy his SA ranks higher than doing nothing.

 

The only reason not to fire early is if you're have some airquake killing spree in mind, in a server mostly full of people that don't know what they're doing.

+1

Or if you know the other guy is busy doing something else and doesn't see you. :)

Can I ask why the split-s at 0:06 and why such an aggressive lead roll at 1:01?

Because, based on experience, thats the best way to start off in a merge

Try to use ECM. Minimize the possibility of maddog finding targets. You have silence at RWR...

like my tacview:

Tacview-20160825-135549-DCS.txt.rar

Here exists as a trigger for very simple conditions for finding targets by ARH.

ECM ON, aspect +/-60deg HOT by ARH plane + distance less than 15km between ARH and target (same time) = lock ARH the target

or

ECM OFF, distance less than 15km between ARH and target = lock ARH the target (from any position)

Very simple, and very predictably, arcade... :cry:

Just better hope that 29 nail doesn't have a later follow up R-77 coming your way, that would really put you in a pickle with your over confidence of ignoring the long range shot and underestimating your opponent. There are plenty of ways to play the harmless greenie.

With ignoring i don't mean fly in a straight line. And R-77 long range shot are even more easy to dodge then AIM-120C. Crank the long range shot and it's gone. And also if i see MIG-29 on RADAR ID i expect R-77 anyway.

Who said greater than 10nmi, initial shot maybe but that plays as a nice bait to disguise further shots. Sorry I don't buy into letting my opponent having a free run to set up his attack unhindered. To win against your opponent trying to destroy his SA ranks higher than doing nothing.

 

The only reason not to fire early is if you're have some airquake killing spree in mind, in a server mostly full of people that don't know what they're doing.

We talking about long range (MAX) shots aren't we. 10nm are not long range at least from my understanding.

In my limited experience R77 is worthless...

Because, based on experience, thats the best way to start off in a merge

If you want to learn about merge and dogfight, do what stuge told you, practice a lot (best online) and ask him any question you have (whispering: he is the master, and I mean it!) :)

We talking about long range (MAX) shots aren't we. 10nm are not long range at least from my understanding.

I can't respond if you don't understand the concept or what i've posted.

Try to use ECM. Minimize the possibility of maddog finding targets. You have silence at RWR...

 

like my tacview:

Watching the last two R-27 ER's sail meaninglessly past their intended target makes me sad. Easily launched within acceptable parameters. As it is now the big stick for the Su-27 / -33 is more like a dead branch :(

Liked the way that you kept the F-15 constantly on the defensive throughout the engagement. Was it an AI aircraft? The F-15's energy management didn't appear to be all that great.

its AI. Code is destroyed, the FOV is absolute. Vags announced coding the next level. If we stay alive until that time promised... :(

its AI. Code is destroyed, the FOV is absolute. Vags announced coding the next level. If we stay alive until that time promised... :(

Yes, hopefully the missile guidance review / re-code will improve things for everyone.

If you want to learn about merge and dogfight, do what stuge told you, practice a lot (best online) and ask him any question you have (whispering: he is the master, and I mean it!) :)

Haha thx for the referral JunMcKill :):)

Here's something you probably won't read from any guide... I know I haven't... and it's so simple it's almost dumb:

I firmly believe that as long as you have control over your airspeed at the merge, and there is no significant separation between the fighters at merge, the single best move at merge is almost always to pull straight up into the vertical, unless going for energy tactics (which is viable only in a guns fight anyway).

I believe all those dogfighting guides recommending things like slice turns or horizontal ones or whatever, are wrong and anyone attempting a horizontal move against a well executed vertical one will be instantly disadvantaged in angles :) This applies to pretty much any fighter aircraft.

Now if someone disagrees with this and wants to prove me wrong... send me pm, we can fly, record on tacview and post here how things really are ;)

You sir, just fixed EVERYTHING !!

 

I set my speed to 500 knots and halved the fuel, and the plane became seriously agile, and it really made the dogfight much easier.

 

Do you think that changing the speed and fuel of the sukhoi will make it harder ??

 

Thanks,

Prototypebayu8

Absolutely. You may have seen people talking about 'energy' in the context of dogfights- energy is a combination of your speed and altitude, and the more you have the more likely you are to win. When the flankers are going 270 knots and you are going 500 knots, you have a big energy advantage- you can spend that energy doing maneuvers straight away, while the flankers must build up speed first (or settle for reduced turn rate).

Fuel-wise, the Flanker has BIG fuel tanks- unlike the F-15 it is designed to carry all of its fuel internally, so a Flanker on full fuel is in a similar position to a F-15 with a couple of drop tanks loaded. Reducing their fuel load to 50% will make them a lot more maneuverable.

It's hard to find that fine line fighting against a AIM-120C platform.

It's not hard in the slightest if you have some hours and practice into it. Now and then you'll be surprised by a good opponent but these days it's really rare sadly. Generally speaking in fact there's little that's easier than fighting against an AMRAAM platform in DCS online. The good F-15 drivers just don't seem to go up much anymore. Most people flying the Flanker or Mig don't put all that much time in it or know what they're doing. As a result most current F-15 pilots in DCS get incredibly lax and lazy. It's not at all hard to swat them down. And if you've got one or more buddies who know how to fly, it's child's play. You can easily be more than even a pretty decent F-15 can handle, and if you know what you're doing after the merge it's a pretty steady win rate. You will from time to time run into "professionals", but that's another learning experience and you can still keep them on their toes, and get a decent K/D.

It's not hard in the slightest if you have some hours and practice into it. Now and then you'll be surprised by a good opponent but these days it's really rare sadly. Generally speaking in fact there's little that's easier than fighting against an AMRAAM platform in DCS online. The good F-15 drivers just don't seem to go up much anymore. Most people flying the Flanker or Mig don't put all that much time in it or know what they're doing. As a result most current F-15 pilots in DCS get incredibly lax and lazy. It's not at all hard to swat them down. And if you've got one or more buddies who know how to fly, it's child's play. You can easily be more than even a pretty decent F-15 can handle, and if you know what you're doing after the merge it's a pretty steady win rate. You will from time to time run into "professionals", but that's another learning experience and you can still keep them on their toes, and get a decent K/D.

Are you sure about that ? Because I've seen somebody in F-15 wiped out 2-4 Flankers single handedly in one encounter lately in TAW server and I can tell you those Flanker pilots are not newbies....

Gam Zeh Ya'avor - King Salomon

Haha thx for the referral JunMcKill :):)

 

Here's something you probably won't read from any guide... I know I haven't... and it's so simple it's almost dumb:

 

I firmly believe that as long as you have control over your airspeed at the merge, and there is no significant separation between the fighters at merge, the single best move at merge is almost always to pull straight up into the vertical, unless going for energy tactics (which is viable only in a guns fight anyway).

 

I believe all those dogfighting guides recommending things like slice turns or horizontal ones or whatever, are wrong and anyone attempting a horizontal move against a well executed vertical one will be instantly disadvantaged in angles :) This applies to pretty much any fighter aircraft.

 

Now if someone disagrees with this and wants to prove me wrong... send me pm, we can fly, record on tacview and post here how things really are ;)

I disagree but not the way you think.

Doing that is simply not as easy as you make it out to be, but you're so much better than everyone else you can get away with more or less whatever you want to do because you can adapt and make up for any disadvantage you thrown yourself into.

Now I've done the vertical merge many times and discounting the ones where the enemy got caught completely off guard it usually ended up in a quick loss because if the other guy keeps his speed he can gain angles on you when you're temporarily losing speed. I guess it can work but I still haven't managed to figure out what the key was to making it work.

At low to med alt he can stay around corner in the horizontal as much as he wants and his STR will usually win the fight sooner or later anyway. Staying purely vertical is not an option IMO because it's too predictable.

On the other hand if you go split S against someone who goes up you're indeed definitely going to lose and very fast at that. :D

Blaze I never said it's super easy to pull off :) But it's the best move when done correctly. It gives you first shot with heatseeker, and good energy to continue if the heatseeker misses etc.

Few pointers:

-starting speed so that you almost black out when pulling up at max performance (stick pulled fully to the balls, about 500 kts for Eagle.)

-once you're past 1/4 of the loop, lift vector goes exactly on the bandit

A corner speed loving horizontal turning opponent will be destroyed within 10 seconds of the merge...

FYI, usually in situations where we are going head on, my philosophy is just to close it as soon as possible, or else he might shoot me, and for me, aim-9m is not the best in head on..

From experience, during a head-on you can use aim-9m when its a bit far, but then, IMO the vertical scan in an f-15 doesnt always lock on well, and by the time you fire, he's too close.

Blaze I never said it's super easy to pull off :) But it's the best move when done correctly. It gives you first shot with heatseeker, and good energy to continue if the heatseeker misses etc.

 

Few pointers:

-starting speed so that you almost black out when pulling up at max performance (stick pulled fully to the balls, about 500 kts for Eagle.)

-once you're past 1/4 of the loop, lift vector goes exactly on the bandit

 

A corner speed loving horizontal turning opponent will be destroyed within 10 seconds of the merge...

one additional point: turns your 9g loop into 10g turn as you go over the top, without adding any stress to the airframe or pilot, 'cause gravity pulls on the whole bird equally...

one additional point: turns your 9g loop into 10g turn as you go over the top, without adding any stress to the airframe or pilot, 'cause gravity pulls on the whole bird equally...

Yes Shurugal, the move is all about the gravity assist that you get after passing through 1/4 of the loop ;)

You will just about always point first going pure vertical, but you will be looking at a high low merge at the lower end of corner speed where they will be able to fit inside your bubble for a much more exclusive shot in the following roller/scissors. This does however make the big assumption that you don't blow each other to pieces before this lol.

I find an ascending spiral or a matching pure vertical turn where I come off obliquely to be slightly below at the merge to work best. They will still point first but at least it will be for less time due to the collapsed range and you will be lower. Generally speaking, I want to set up the steepest high to low merge that I can without dying in the process lol.

From my experience using the su-27 I can easily just roll around the F-15's flight path at all times using my slow speed rate to force it out in front whilst avoiding it's gun. You could get a snapshot by using your instantaneous rate, but if you miss it is game over. A well executed no respect lead turn can even deny this; however it does carry some risk. So yeah just blow through and run lol.

Stuge, wouldn't 500kts give you a pretty large radius? If I matched you pure vertical starting at 440kts I'm pretty sure my radius and rate would allow me to point first and be below you quite easily. I know it depends on weight but 500kts still seems quite high.