CBU-97 and CCIP no solid PBIL

Hi, I'm having gripes with 97s. When I rollout, as I cross 300 knots, the line wont come solid AT ALL!!! PBIL that is.

I've set TOF 0.6XXX and HOF 3000. Does setting a min alt of 3000 and rolling in from 11000 feet affect the PBIL? Please advise. I'll post a video if needed unless this is old behaviour (1.2.15)

The CBUs have a lot of drag, you really need a quite steep dive to use CCIP

trust me what you're about to see will dispel any myths regarding my understanding of steep and deep dives...

It might be conflicting with the SEM.

BTW i dont think TOF is modelled in the sim, and las but not least, Dat HOF is ridículos.

The canisters will drift a lot, its best to set the HOF between 900 and 1500 ft.

Why not using CCRP?

CCRP is less accurate than CCIP.

Why not using CCRP?

It would be faster do it in CCIP if you have target with Mark I eyeball. All you have to do is align the aircraft on an offset course and then tip in for the kill. No need for the TGP.

Does it work correctly with CCIP CR?

Cheers

Hans

CCRP is less accurate than CCIP.

But you'er using a cbu-97. With that thing the accuracy of using CCRP should be enough.

There is no difference in accuracy between CCIP and CCRP; that is a myth. They both use the exact same ballistic data. The perceived difference in accuracy, if any, is because people tend to use CCRP with a level or shallow dive delivery, but tend to use CCIP with a steep delivery. IFFCC is going to be more accurate as the dive angle increases because the ballistic path of the weapon is shorter and easier to predict.

Use CCRP with a steeper delivery, and you'll find it to be every bit as accurate as CCIP.

As to the original question, a persistently dashed PBIL means the weapon impact point is out of the HUD FOV. A steeper dive angle, greater airspeed, or lower altitude is required to place the impact point in the HUD FOV; preferably all three.

And remember, the point of a CBU-97 is to spread the skeets out laterally over an area target. If the canister is in a 88 degree dive when it functions because you released it from an A-10 at 11000ft, what do you think the spacing is going to be. How effective is the weapon against an area target when all the skeets are densely packed?

CCRP, when dropped level, is not nearly as accurate as a CCIP diving attack as there is more hang time for the munition to be affected by winds. CCIP gives you point and shoot ability.

If you want to stop a convoy with CBU-97s CCRP it is very difficult to update the SPI to an accurate impact point, even if you want to mitigate the time of fall by diving. With CCIP I can look at the speed the convoy is moving, look at my pipper and accurately adjust just a few seconds prior to release.

OP, have you tried the CBU-97s without adjusting the settings? I have no issues seeing the PIBL and I always use a HOF of 700.

Hi, I'm having gripes with 97s. When I rollout, as I cross 300 knots, the line wont come solid AT ALL!!! PBIL that is.

 

I've set TOF 0.6XXX and HOF 3000. Does setting a min alt of 3000 and rolling in from 11000 feet affect the PBIL? Please advise. I'll post a video if needed unless this is old behaviour (1.2.15)

Have you tried doing this:

Set Up IFFCC Menu

If you wish to deliver an unguided bomb in CCIP mode, you have the option to do so in Manual

Release (MAN REL), 3/9 Consent to Release, and 5 Mil Consent to Release (CR) modes. While

Manual Release is used as the default, you can select 3/9 or 5 MIL CR from the IFFCC Test menu. To

do so:

1. Place the IFFCC switch on the AHCP in the TEST position

2. With the CCIP CONSENT OPT line selected, press the DATA rocker on the UFC to cycle

between the three options

3. When complete, move the IFFCC switch to the ON positio

DCS A-10C manual, page 535

Is would be more useful than trying the TOF option. CBU-97 are suppose to open by the altitude selector ( using the radar fuze on the nose), TOF, IIRC, was more for older CBU that used timing fuzes to open. To properly use a lot of option available in the weapons pages, we need more information not accessible to us. For RL pilots they can look up manuals than tell them bomb "X" drop from "y' height at "Z" speed would have "A' TOF. They have charts for everything, e.i. ( see attach picture)

The data is for lofting a GBU-12 (several versions) from an F-16 at specific conditions, the point is, there is a lot of option we have available for weapons but not all the necessary information to use those options.

TOF is used to drive the desired release cue (DRC), it has no physical effect on any weapon.

I think you're confusing TOF with function time, which is used to determine the cannister function delay where no FZU-39 is fitted.

Me? No I'm just saying to use a lot of those parameters it would be easier if we had all the require info the RL pilots have. (TO. -34-1-1, -34-1-1-1, 1-1, 1-1-1, 1-1-2, etc.)

I mention how the bomb open because I think is something you need to keep in mind when releasing a bomb and setting parameter for the computer to release that weapon.

I always use CCRP - mostly because I've never understood when the PBIL line will come up or not. I don't even have a clue about the line being solid and not and what that would mean.

I just don't see how TOF would help properly use on a CBU-97.

For example, RL pilots would know if we open the CBU-97 at "X" altitude ( this would determine the release altitude and it would be different specially when taking into account the fuze timing etc.) and the weapons is release at "Y" speed it can cover "Z" amount of ground or area. So if they are going on a mission and the targets are a vehicle parking area ( for example) that is "This" long by "that" wide, they would know they can release 2 canisters at this height and speed to cover that area( again just an example). Or if they are not sure of the target, but want a high concentration of sub-munitions, they can set up different parameters. Now all this is set on the bomb before take off ( normally hours before by the weapons crews, pilots verify on the walk around of the jet), but to know the proper release parameters, you set up you weapons page to show this information.

Anyway, I just don't see TOF playing a part on any of this. Other CBU or weapons, yes. old CBU ( like the once used in Vietnam) where time fuze ( they are all time fuze to a point) anyway, if the bomb where release to high, the sub-munitions would actually fall all around the intended target without hitting it. So setting TOF for those weapons makes since. You would know if the CBU was release at a certain height, speed and dive angle, it would take "x" about of time to open and "Y" amount to impact. So you can set up TOF to help aim better and have a higher chance to hit.

Guys I now know the problem. Its the target altitude. In weapons training all target waypoints are 9480 feet thats why it was outside fov dashed. So I pick a target on TGP, dms right short then read off Mkpoint altitude, UFC Fn/2/Stpt, enter that alt to waypoint name and bingo. Solid again.

I just don't see how TOF would help properly use on a CBU-97.

 

For example, RL pilots would know if we open the CBU-97 at "X" altitude ( this would determine the release altitude and it would be different specially when taking into account the fuze timing etc.) and the weapons is release at "Y" speed it can cover "Z" amount of ground or area. So if they are going on a mission and the targets are a vehicle parking area ( for example) that is "This" long by "that" wide, they would know they can release 2 canisters at this height and speed to cover that area( again just an example). Or if they are not sure of the target, but want a high concentration of sub-munitions, they can set up different parameters. Now all this is set on the bomb before take off ( normally hours before by the weapons crews, pilots verify on the walk around of the jet), but to know the proper release parameters, you set up you weapons page to show this information.

 

Anyway, I just don't see TOF playing a part on any of this. Other CBU or weapons, yes. old CBU ( like the once used in Vietnam) where time fuze ( they are all time fuze to a point) anyway, if the bomb where release to high, the sub-munitions would actually fall all around the intended target without hitting it. So setting TOF for those weapons makes since. You would know if the CBU was release at a certain height, speed and dive angle, it would take "x" about of time to open and "Y" amount to impact. So you can set up TOF to help aim better and have a higher chance to hit.

As I said, TOF is used to drive the DRC, which is part of the aiming aid/confirmation of parameters for a CCIP delivery. It applies to ALL unguided free fall ordnance delivered using CCIP aiming.

For every given set of delivery parameters (dive angle, release airspeed, release altitude) there is a corresponding TOF (calculated using CWDS or similar systems IRL). As per the example image below, if you roll out at track altitude correctly on track as planned the DRC will sit right over the target and you simply let the pipper track up to the DRC at which point you pickle, at exactly the planned release altitude.

what a nice rollout picture you got there eddie. I wouldn't suppose we could get a copy of your attack planner (ala falcon 4 WDP)? :)

Wildbill, you can find it here ind the Battle Book I guess; http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=211

Cheers

Hans

WildBillKelsoe,

Glad you find the answer, wish I could help more.

Eddie,

Ok, I will try and learn more how to use it, thanks

HMA,

Thanks for the link.

lol, so many years flying this thing and I know so little :D

HMA, no I meant the software he or 476th uses to derive these parameters. Anyways.. Problem solved.