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DCS F-35A


Wags

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I wonder what will happen if the kickstarter fails to reach its goal.

 

Unless the goal is stupidly high, I predict them passing the goal by a very wide margin.

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........

 

Putting a percentage value on it.

 

No more than 70%.

 

Cheers Eddie

 

Now if the F-35 Devs can match that figure of 70% I dare say we have nothing to complain about it bearing the DCS-tag.

 

Eagerly awaiting confirmation either way.

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Well, now lets see, a quick "off the top of my head" list.

 

Systems that are either not modelled or have at least some degree of simplification and/or "game" modelling (some of the below will be down to limited dev resources and/or known bugs).

 

SADL/JTRS

DSMS

IFFCC

Electronic Warfare/Countermeasures

TAD

IFF

Radios (Crypto/Havequick)

Maverick

JDAM

WCMD

Unguided Rockets

LUU-2

LITENING AT

Engines

Hydraulics

Environmental Control System

 

Putting a percentage value on it.

 

No more than 70%.

 

Really, yet when people asked before this F35 announcement, they were let to believe how well modeled everything is in the A10C.

Down to aerodynamics, engine performance, hydraulic and electrical system.

 

Failures were apparently not a part of weapon A hitting part H but due to elaborate damage and systems modelling.

 

Down to the electrical current being drawn by systems etc etc.

 

So now then, what is it.

Option A, as realistic as we were always let to believe

Option B, an elaborate and ever changing scam that the publisher changes the definition of throughout its live cycle's to what suite's there needs best at that given time.

 

Option C,.....................

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What Eddie describes sounds like option A to me. DCS is very realistic. But it's still a simulator, not a remote desktop connection to an A-10C.

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The A-10C is still by far the most accurate representation of a modern military combat aircraft to date.

 

Very little of what isn't there is classified. It mostly a mix of there simply not being enough time /resources for ED to implement such things or the USAF/US DoD not allowing things to be implemented in the commercial product.

 

Every single system I mentioned could be modelled based on public information/physics/common sense, if the dev resources were there and the USAF/US DoD allowed it.

 

The point is, as has always been said. If I, or anyone else, tells you system X is realistic how would you know any different? At the end of the day, as long as the implementation is plausible and maintains the suspension of disbelief it's fine.

 

Question for you, looking at that list of systems that are not modelled/simplified I posted before, can anyone tell me why/how they are simplified? I'd be willing to bet the number of people on these forums that could is barely in double digits.

 

There is nothing that makes me think the same could not be achieved with the F-35.


Edited by Eddie
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Hi again to all. I would to once again make it clear that I have dedicated myself and my company to bringing the joy of military aviation to as many as possible... when the dust settles we still fly together for the joy of it. I was hoping that an announcement of a new module for DCS would bring us all closer together as a community. FYI - I was in VT-10, VT-86, VMFA-531, MAG-11, VFC-13, and HC-9 might have been a couple of military cockpits mixed into that group... not to mention hundreds of hours in both the B-2 and F-22 developmental simulators.

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LOL.

 

I find it quite amusing that people are so happy with the A-10C given the number of systems/weapons that are heavily simplified or flat out not modelled, and yet the prospect of the same thing for a Lightning II is somehow so objectionable.

 

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  • ED Team
I was hoping that an announcement of a new module for DCS would bring us all closer together as a community.

 

Not spent much time in flight sim forums then huh :D

 

Seriously though, dont sweat the negative stuff... Just make a kick ass F-35 ( and F4U and Zero and others) and thats good enough for most...

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Hi again to all. I would to once again make it clear that I have dedicated myself and my company to bringing the joy of military aviation to as many as possible... when the dust settles we still fly together for the joy of it. I was hoping that an announcement of a new module for DCS would bring us all closer together as a community. FYI - I was in VT-10, VT-86, VMFA-531, MAG-11, VFC-13, and HC-9 might have been a couple of military cockpits mixed into that group... not to mention hundreds of hours in both the B-2 and F-22 developmental simulators.

 

Nothing personal towards you Kinney.

But wouldn't you be at the very least confused if the following happend?

 

December 2012;

Someone asks on forum for an SU-27 whatever latest variant, or SU-34 PAK FA etc etc.

 

Someone from ED replies whit, impossible, not enough information for any level of simulation, not DCS, not FC, probably not even game mode.

And if there was information, it would simply not be allowed to any kind of realistic re-presentation.

 

What has changed in those few months that all of a sudden it now can be done, at the highest level of simulation i am aware off?

 

Whoever can explain the above to me wins the Nobel Price for Peace of Falcons mind.

 

EDIT,

 

Looking forward to other things you announced btw, like terrain and WWII era plane's.

Its just the F35 that we were always told by ED was not possible because..........laundry list of reasons here.

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You just won't get permission from Sukhoi and Russian military. Classified is classified here.

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Not being able to model aircraft A to "DCS standards" does not mean it isn't possible to model aircraft B. Even if A and B are from the same generation and have the same capabilities.

 

Likewise, just because ED themselves can't model a given aircraft, it doesn't mean someone else won't have the necessary contacts/sources to do so. And what can't be modelled today, might end up being possible next month. It's not a clear black/white thing.

 

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Well yeah, but i didn't mean just the Russian craft. Should have put an F22 in there or something.

 

Cause the same laundry list was used as argument towards modern western planes.

 

EDIT

Sniped by Eddie

 

Not being able to model aircraft A to "DCS standards" does not mean it isn't possible to model aircraft B. Even if A and B are from the same generation and have the same capabilities.

 

Likewise, just because ED themselves can't model a given aircraft, it doesn't mean someone else won't have the necessary contacts/sources to do so. And what can't be modelled today, might end up being possible next month. It's not a clear black/white thing.

 

In that case things may need to be formulated a bit different in the future then.

Cause i always understood it as ........by ANYONE.

instead of .........by Eagle Dynamics.


Edited by 159th_Falcon

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Well yeah, but i didn't mean just the Russian craft. Should have put an F22 in there or something.

 

Cause the same laundry list was used as argument towards modern western planes.

 

EDIT

Sniped by Eddie

Well, now someone got ability to make this particular aircraft. F-22, Su-35 and other company is still in the same list.

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Ноет в небе самолетик,

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What does a developer need to accomplish to meet the standards of a DCS product ? What kind of aircraft would ED consider too classified to be modeled to a DCS standard ?

 

Lemme take a guess.

 

This cannot be determined on an per A/C basis but has to be determined on an per Developer basis because they can have fastly different resources and abilities to model a certain craft.

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It doesn't matter what planes ED considers 'too classified'. What does matter is what information the module producer claims to have (or can present), as well as their background.

 

What does a developer need to accomplish to meet the standards of a DCS product ? What kind of aircraft would ED consider too classified to be modeled to a DCS standard ?

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Well, now lets see, a quick "off the top of my head" list.

 

Systems that are either not modelled or have at least some degree of simplification and/or "game" modelling (some of the below will be down to limited dev resources and/or known bugs).

 

[...]

 

No more than 70%.

 

The point is are the documents avaiable to achieve the same fidelty for the F35? Enough to create an AFM and see how the FCS works etc...

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Correct. For example, you might say 'I'll make a DCS: PAK-FA', and when you failed to present your ability to obtain reasonable accuracy, your DCS license would be denied - that's just my understanding, someone from ED might have more carefully chosen words on the matter.

 

Lemme take a guess.

 

This cannot be determined on an per A/C basis but has to be determined on an per Developer basis because they can have fastly different resources and abilities to model a certain craft.

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More to the point, the third-party Devs here have just been that wee bitty too vague so as to properly facilitate one from formulating an educated opinion one way or another and that in itself is worrisome to say the least. Eagerly awaiting the kickstarter description and sales-pitch which I hope is not as 'lean' as the info to date.

 

Yeah, I hope they will learn from the previous F-35 attempt as how NOT to do a sales pitch.

 


Edited by Dudikoff

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How would you ever be able to know? How would you ever be able to know with respect to the A-10C, to begin with? You took ED at their word. What's wrong with taking Kinney's word?

 

The point is are the documents avaiable to achieve the same fidelty for the F35? Enough to create an AFM and see how the FCS works etc...

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It's very disappointing to see how negative this thread has become. Everyone seem's focused on telling Kinney how he can't do it instead of recognizing the fact that he as accepted the challenge of such an advanced and systematically challenging aircraft. I for one am fully pulling for Kinney and ED's success with the F-35.

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Now if the F-35 Devs can match that figure of 70% I dare say we have nothing to complain about it bearing the DCS-tag.

 

It's just that the 70% of the A-10C and 70% of the F-35 are not really in the same league by a long shot.. The radar (especially the A2G mode which would be the first) and the HMS which can project the image which is behind the airframe just to name a few things which would seem to require some additional support in the DCS engine.


Edited by Dudikoff

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Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!

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