New screenies of FC3

Realistic system and avionics, realistic flight model? It's my opinion ;)

 

EDIT: I don't call nobody "Kid" only quote

Are the systems and avionics less realistic in FC?

Their interface maybe, but is the underlining modeling of the system inferior?

What's more realistic?

A. An immaculately modeled interface to a radar, every button and knob functioning as per spec to model the user interface perfectly, but the radar performance based on a look up table

Or

B. a simplified interface to a radar that has real time beam modeling based on ray tracing and actual beam physics

Not saying FC's avionics are at that level, but is radar modeled differently in DCS vs FC?

Agreed. In my mind DCS and LOMAC aren't equal products with a difference in fidelity, DCS is the next generation of simulation when it comes to combat ac. Doesn't mean LOMAC is bad, just out dated imho

Actually, while LO is literally dated, I think the focus is on levels of fidelity here. My point is that FC has enough fidelity to give you a good taste of realistic A2A, minus ECM and equipment failures, weapon peculiarities etc.

DCS will do a bit better in the future, but by how much, hard to tell - yes, a spiffy modern fighter will make fighting about as easy as it is in FC. Scan deignate shoot observe. An old fighter, see beczl's mig-21 :)

The DCS version is harder precisely because it is more realistic. It does a much better job of simulating the kind of challenge that our real world counter parts face.

Yes but he ia salso right in that some people think hard=realistic. Not the case. Look at a modern F-15: BVR is pretty much a video-game. You see stuff on your screen, click it, launch missiles. The fact that you have to consider tactics, missile kinematics etc play no role here: You can have the exact same situation in a lo-fi plane like the FC2 F-15, or a DCS plane ... what changes is your interface, and the DCS aircraft will tend to have more advantages ... not less, as some people think.

A lot of people also seem to think that the length of start-up has a bearing on what's arcade and what's not, and how horrible it is that they get shot down after their 6-min start-up ... to that I say, if you don't know how to put your plane in the air in 1-2min, you aren't taking your hobby as seriously as you think you are :D

The fact is though, that even a DCS fighter starting up for the same amount of time would just run all over them and put'em in the ground just the same. Who/what to blame now?

Yeah, startup with K-50 - 3 min. startup with f-15 30 sec. few spAMRAMs and another startup with K-50... I been shoot many times right after take of by those "kids" and i know the pain :cry: then i know what realism is when FC is mixed with DCS - There's no realism...

Can't wait to get into my Eagle in 6DOF cockpit and fire 8 Spamraams at once (to be sure) against poor Ka-50s :D

Relating cockpit - after I saw F-15 in FC3, Su-27s pit is just barely acceptable.

Relating cockpit - after I saw F-15 in FC3, Su-27s pit is just barely acceptable.

But you admit, it is still acceptable :)

So i see more people's on forum who playing in kid game's like flaming cliffs. Only real man flying in realistics planes like A-10 ... noob's :]

Let's see how you do in your 'man's' plane when I'm tracking you down in a Mig-29.

Let's see how you do in your 'man's' plane when I'm tracking you down in a Mig-29.

I'm sure he wouldn't fair well...

Just to be inflammatory, I wonder how well you'd fair in your Mig-29 when he's hunting you down in DCS-Next... :P

I'm sure he wouldn't fair well...

 

Just to be inflammatory, I wonder how well you'd fair in your Mig-29 when he's hunting you down in DCS-Next... :P

Probably not very well, because he will be struggling along with trying to grasp the principles of air combat, whereas FC3 squadrons will already have a firm grasp of what is what.

Well, I guess that cat is out of the bag now. This is one of the items I referred to earlier about other improvements we are working on for FC3 that pushed it back a bit. We purchased the art work from Ricardo and are now in the process of improving and fixing it. We hope this to be a new item for the release of FC3.

Good choice. :thumbup:

So is it a part of new features why FC3 didnt release in September? ; )

Second - very good way, its motivated to keep good (and good quality) work of part talented community on ED Forum.

Thx.

Good choice

Well, I guess that cat is out of the bag now. This is one of the items I referred to earlier about other improvements we are working on for FC3 that pushed it back a bit. We purchased the art work from Ricardo and are now in the process of improving and fixing it. We hope this to be a new item for the release of FC3.

Good to hear Ricardo's hard work finally got payed off.

Well, I guess that cat is out of the bag now. This is one of the items I referred to earlier about other improvements we are working on for FC3 that pushed it back a bit. We purchased the art work from Ricardo and are now in the process of improving and fixing it. We hope this to be a new item for the release of FC3.

That's great news. I think the russian birds will be more on par with the new F-15C pit with these textures

That's great news. I think the russian birds will be more on par with the new F-15C pit with these textures

+ 6DOF (dreamer...) :).

Well, I guess that cat is out of the bag now. This is one of the items I referred to earlier about other improvements we are working on for FC3 that pushed it back a bit. We purchased the art work from Ricardo and are now in the process of improving and fixing it. We hope this to be a new item for the release of FC3.

ahhh now I won't be surprised to see this addition when I buy it! :doh:

Any specific reason?

Second reason was very obvious, the textures that are not ED textures. Ricardo's graphics "signature" is easy to recognize.

Although, now, with Wags revealing that ED purchased Ricardo's art work, it all make sense.

So basically LOMAC aircraft are more realistic than DCS aircraft because "good" pilots aren't worried about switches in the cockpit, just using HOTAS to shoot down other ac?

Replace "good" with "air to air responsible", and you're 90% of the way there.

Arguing over this sort of thing is a moot point, because 90% of the player base is going to have a controller that can be programmed to represent at least 75% of the controls required for air to air work. The ones potentially in question are radar azimuth, radar range, and radar elevation, normally tied to rotaries, which won't be available to anyone not with a store-bought HOTAS or a custom built setup.

Beyond that, your bug, bug reject, radar mode, weapon select, and pickle/gun is about all you need. NCTR and IFF Interrogate is a separate switch, but automated here- those are singular knocks of a four way switch in two directions: *bap*-*bap*. You could perform this faster on the keyboard than the mouse were it available, especially if you're using a TIR, because you've got to bring your head to a POV that shows the switch in question, then reach your hand to the mouse, then move the mouse to the switch.

An F-15 pilot reaching for the PACS MFD, if he ever has to, is doing most of this out of the corner of his eye, if he looks in that direction at all. Even the pitifully non-mental ergonomic Flanker and Fulcrum did most of this work on the throttle and stick; about the only thing you ever had to reach for was the missile timing stopwatch (*LOL*).

That's the way it is A2A. Doesn't make it any less manly, or any less "aged", for those who want to talk about "kids".

And if ticking a chrono makes you an adult/man, then allow us, the children of the Eagle persuasion, to send you geezers screaming into the night, cause we got Timex and we keep on tickin'. :D

Well, I guess that cat is out of the bag now. This is one of the items I referred to earlier about other improvements we are working on for FC3 that pushed it back a bit. We purchased the art work from Ricardo and are now in the process of improving and fixing it. We hope this to be a new item for the release of FC3.

Hmm... well...we could install those pits ourselves as a mod. What we need is a 6dof cockpit. :( :( . Can u guys atleast add in that A-10A 6dof pit (before DCS A-10C was released) and there was a member on the russian forum side who made a Su-25 3d pit.

Its such a night and day difference compared to those bitmap panels.

for those who want to talk about "kids".

I'll pass on that one :D

Having read a bit further back into the thread I will say that I better understand your point. Still don't agree though (you definitely won't catch me calling you a kid...)

I mentioned this before and I think it's the crux of my position here so I'll mention it again:

Compare the Maverick missile implementation in LOMAC to DCS. While I think you're saying that all the important skills required to pull of the perfect attack can be honed with both simulations. I'd agree. But I think there's no question that DCS is far more realistic (read: hard..or whatever you want I suppose :)) in that department. I have no reason to believe that the same isn't true for LOMAC a2a combat... Of course ED hasn't risen the bar yet in that department so it's a bit harder to compare.

Well, I guess that cat is out of the bag now. This is one of the items I referred to earlier about other improvements we are working on for FC3 that pushed it back a bit. We purchased the art work from Ricardo and are now in the process of improving and fixing it. We hope this to be a new item for the release of FC3.

Good choice. :thumbup:

Excellent choice! :thumbup:

Hmm... well...we could install those pits ourselves as a mod. What we need is a 6dof cockpit. :( :( . Can u guys atleast add in that A-10A 6dof pit (before DCS A-10C was released) and there was a member on the russian forum side who made a Su-25 3d pit.

 

Its such a night and day difference compared to those bitmap panels.

Wags said they are improving it more/further also its better to have these textures (if its textures only) as part of original install rather than to mod it, also lot of people that buy the sim don't go to these forums or know about mods... anyway, price for FC3 was already set BEFORE they decided to add better textures so it's not like all we get is new textures.

Be happy... they are improving things now all the time

I'll pass on that one :D

 

Having read a bit further back into the thread I will say that I better understand your point. Still don't agree though (you definitely won't catch me calling you a kid...)

 

I mentioned this before and I think it's the crux of my position here so I'll mention it again:

 

Compare the Maverick missile implementation in LOMAC to DCS. While I think you're saying that all the important skills required to pull of the perfect attack can be honed with both simulations. I'd agree. But I think there's no question that DCS is far more realistic (read: hard..or whatever you want I suppose :)) in that department. I have no reason to believe that the same isn't true for LOMAC a2a combat... Of course ED hasn't risen the bar yet in that department so it's a bit harder to compare.

Good point about the realism and difficulty difference between FC2 A10 Maverick and the DCS A10 Maverick. Think though about how the tactics used to destroy a ground target are the same for both.

What are you going to take my money?!?

I better get going on buying Lock On. Wouldn't want to buy FC3 only to wait another week for Lock On cd to arrive. :D

Relating cockpit - after I saw F-15 in FC3, Su-27s pit is just barely acceptable.

+1

No offense to Rickardo but 2D pits...

Can you think of any other developer who would release, in 2012, a flight sim with...2D pits ?

I'll buy FC3 for sure and I'll spend 99% of my time in the F15 for sure too...

Day after day the gap between blufor and opfor aircraft is getting bigger and bigger.

Plenty of US/NATO aircraft in the making by 3rd party dev, ED probably working on a F16 or F18 and just a single Opfor aircraft...sad :(

I wasn't gonna buy FC3 but with a new pit for the SU27 now im gonna buy. Hope to see screens of the finish product of the pit.