Announcing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3

That's not really fair or true unless the same people complain both ways. There are plenty who are very happy to see the F15c get the love in this thread. But if an individual aircraft gets upgraded its bound to disappoint the ones who don't like that airframe. The only way to please everyone is to upgrade all equally. I'm sure ED would have liked to have done that if they had the resources.

 

Well why not please both ways should be the question. I for one are really frustrated by the fact the mig29 is left behind. Rather seen the F15 and Mig29 plasticpixelsurgery job in FC3 instead of only one. Missed chance imo......

That's a lot of complaining while missing the big picture.

Looking forward to FC3! For me, it will mean enjoying the DCS World from a higher altitude, I really like to fly high in the Flanker and F-15.

It will also mean 64-bit, which is welcome.

How about that resource manager? More dynamic landings?

A lot of work has gone into what is becoming FC3. Yes, a lot of stuff blends into DCSW, and it always will from now on. But those things need to be funded also.

 

I dont mind to pay, but when I pay I expect features.

Well, you have to use integrated base of missiles/weapons. One missile should fly and act same, no matter its fired from F-15 or A-10.

 

And you'll launch something from an F-15 in DCS World without FC3.... how? ;)

And do you think the A2A missiles would have gotten their physics reworked if it was not for FC3? Would you have the resource management system? Answers are, most likely: no.

 

For example it would be very acceptable for me to buy only FC3 F-15 for fair price, but not for whole pack with essentially just one aircraft updated. :)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1541657&postcount=49

That's a lot of complaining while missing the big picture.

 

The bigger picture looks fine its just meh to find out the things you really love stay behind ;) :argue:

Any changes in ECM behaviour?

Will we be able to select our own tail number a la FC1?

Milene, the thing is that you only know what has been announced.

 

How do you know the things you love stay behind? All you know is that some fav feature has not been announced. Yet.

Simply, someone make MP mission with F-15s and A-10Cs,

I own copy of A-10C and someone else at server own a copy of FC3. When we shot Aim-9 at each other, it should work same.

 

You got the question wrong.

Your argument would mean that "meh, why charge money for any aircraft? Because I can get it anyway simply through playing online with someone that has it"... :P

 

I do not really understand what is the resource management system, can you describe that feature? how it works, what can I do with that?

 

I can only comment on things already made public, and I'm unsure about what has been made public about it or not so I probably shouldn't.

 

I do not know what would be updated and under what conditions, cannot even guess. Thats a internal work plan of ED team. :)

 

Exactly. Thus you should not take imperfect knowledge and assume that everything that is not explicitly mentioned in this first announcement simply does not exist.

 

ED isn't even taking orders yet. If you are skeptical of the value from your perspective, just wait until there's more information AND the product is even available for purchase. ;)

Actually thats a DCS world feature, you get missiles afm even if you do not buy FC3.

You don't get to use them outside of FC3. No one gets AFM missiles for free, except the AI.

 

 

It costs, so its not trivial at all. 75% of FC3 will be that F-15 graphic improvement.

Trivial as in it's value added to the sim experience. Of course this is subjective and will vary person by person, but I could care if the F-15 cockpit was ported from LOMAC. I wouldn't care if the F-15 cockpit was ported from LOMAC and every other plane had revamped 3D cockpit models. I'm paying $40 for fighters in DCS World with AFM missiles. Everything else is a bonus.

 

But of course I understand if others feel differently.

 

 

Thats not update at all, thats just a fix for bug we waited for 10 years.

I'll wait until we actually know, in detail, what was changed before I label it a bug fix or not.

I would love to know more about how detailed would be the AFM for the missiles.

It could open a huge new world as the BVR combat goes.You should be able for example

to extent much more the r27er range by launching it above Mach1,and I'd also want

to see how are we going to dodge missiles now that should behave closer to RL than before.

Please don't tel me the screenshot of the Su27 with that prehistoric graphics is still in FC3?!!!!!

i bought every single product of ED, and i see myself as a loyal customer, and on every flightsim event were we (Dutch Flanker Display Team) attend, we promote products of ED because we love it.

The price tag doesn't interest me, even if it were twice as much, but if ED is releasing a module called FC3 than i expect it to be FC3, not F15 (which we never fly).

i think many of us are left in the cold this way!

There are many people loving the Russian birds, so come on and make it so!!!

am i going to buy FC3? really this is the first time i do consider NOT to buy FC3.

 

But please tell me that i'm wrong and let me in for a surprise!

 

Wasserfall

 

Dutch Flanker Display Team

Milene, the thing is that you only know what has been announced.

 

How do you know the things you love stay behind? All you know is that some fav feature has not been announced. Yet.

 

I can sleep now :) :music_whistling:

I wonder if the AIM-9X will be in it and the JHMCS, considering the time frame.

I wonder if the AIM-9X will be in it and the JHMCS, considering the time frame.

 

No it won't(Hope I'm wrong),as far as I know,the F15 simulated in FC3 is pre 2000-2005,same goes with the

flanker.If they decided to give the Eagle JHMCS then they should upgrade su27 to su27M with new radar,

r77 launch capability,and AG ordenance,and so on...

thats the problem, most features at the list wags provided to us are not described well.

 

It's a press release.

 

Not a manual.

 

Important distinction. ;)

So... When is the full list of features and fixes gonna be released then??

So... When is the full list of features and fixes gonna be released then??

 

It will be included in the download when you buy it! ;)

So... When is the full list of features and fixes gonna be released then??

 

Closer to release I'd imagine.

 

Nate

Also, you have to realize something here: if you want new features, they have to be paid for. ED programmers have this habit of needing to pay rent and feed their families. You seem to be under the impression that these features would enter DCS World at all without some module covering the expenses, which I doubt. (Though I don't have access to internal planning.)

Once again you fail to realise where the problem is.

 

FC3 costs the same as DCS Warthog when it first came out. Can you even compare the number of improvements in both ? Obviously not. People who have been loyal to Lock On from the start will have spent around $150 to stay up to date, and they still get the most unrealistic experience of what DCS World has to offer, compared to all other modules, especially the A-10 which has cost us only $40 so far.

 

It would have been a lot more fair to sell the A-10 at an higher price tag (maybe $60) because the huge feature list totally deserved it, and FC3 at a much lower one (20-25). And mind you, I say that while I'm on the A-10C and won't buy FC3 anyway, being done with FC at the moment I first tried the A-10.

 

Obviously the people at ED need to feed their families, nobody says they should work for free. But you have to see there's a huge incoherence in the price tags that puts the burden on the most loyal customers among the fanbase.

 

Also as I already stated the way FC3 is advertised is misleading. You already clarified that when you answered me on page 8 - thank you very much : people who buy FC3 pay for a lot of features everyone else will get for "free", because somebody or "something" has to pay for it. The problem is the way it's advertised on page 1 - really not the same thing. You can already see along this thread that a lot of people are confused, understanding that the expanded theater, additionnal 3d models, effects, AI or whatever will be actually different from what they can get for free by just downloading DCS World. Ok, they'll get to enjoy some of these features in a different, better way, everyone got that. Firing an AFM R-73 from a Su-27 is likely to be a lot more pleasant than being hit by an AFM Strela in my A-10. But still - expanded theatre, resources manager, new 3d models, how's that any different between FC3 and DCS World ? Why are these "key FC3 features" at all ?

 

So the artificialy expanded features list is just a way to try and justify the high price tag - just like it was done for BS2. But a lot of them are not "key FC3 features" at all.

 

I'd be much more happy if ED just said "okay we need more money to keep going and do more high fidelity stuff in the future, please buy FC3 to support us". A lot of people already understood it that way and will be happy to buy FC3 just for the sake of buying something from ED. I'd totally buy a DCS module $100 if it delivers an high-fidelity plane and a several feet long "key features list" that doesn't need any bloating to look solid.

 

But the way it's done here, telling people they'll get FC3 features that are already in DCS World (the "expanded theatre" is the best example), is misleading at best, and once again it's a way of milking the people that have been around here for the most time.

 

So for $40, you can either get the A-10C, or bring network compatibily to your old planes, have wheels that don't stick to the ground, and a 6DOF cockpit that looks so great I'd be surprised not to see it in DCS : Eagle at some point. Yep. Seems fair.

 

Edit : I say ED but when it comes to commercial strategy and business decisions, I guess TFC has the most responsibility in those.

Edited September 2, 2012 by 92nd-MajorBug

FC3 costs the same as DCS Warthog when it first came out.

 

Incorrect.

 

DCS A-10C Warthog cost $59.99 on release.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=67746

 

It would have been a lot more fair to sell the A-10 at an higher price tag (maybe $60)

 

See above.

 

But the way it's done here, telling people they'll get FC3 features that are already in DCS World (the "expanded theatre" is the best example), is misleading at best, and once again it's a way of milking the people that have been around here for the most time.

 

It's not the "best" example, it's the only example, and is relevant for those that move from FC2 to FC3. There is a lot of people that are not interested in the currently released DCS products because they consider them to take too much time to learn, or that are exclusively interested in A2A jet combat and therefore never purchased a DCS product.

 

Why are these "key FC3 features" at all ?

 

Because they were developed for FC3. The resource manager in DCS World is a WIP piece from FC3 development.

Edited September 2, 2012 by EtherealN

Once again you fail to realise where the problem is.

 

FC3 costs the same as DCS Warthog when it first came out. Can you even compare the number of improvements in both ? Obviously not. People who have been loyal to Lock On from the start will have spent around $150 to stay up to date, and they still get the most unrealistic experience of what DCS World has to offer, compared to all other modules, especially the A-10 which has cost us only $40 so far.

 

It would have been a lot more fair to sell the A-10 at an higher price tag (maybe $60) because the huge feature list totally deserved it, and FC3 at a much lower one (20-25). And mind you, I say that while I'm on the A-10C and won't buy FC3 anyway, being done with FC at the moment I first tried the A-10.

 

Obviously the people at ED need to feed their families, nobody says they should work for free. But you have to see there's a huge incoherence in the price tags that puts the burden on the most loyal customers among the fanbase.

 

Also as I already stated the way FC3 is advertised is misleading. You already clarified that when you answered me on page 8 - thank you very much : people who buy FC3 pay for a lot of features everyone else will get for "free", because somebody or "something" has to pay for it. The problem is the way it's advertised on page 1 - really not the same thing. You can already see along this thread that a lot of people are confused, understanding that the expanded theater, additionnal 3d models, effects, AI or whatever will be actually different from what they can get for free by just downloading DCS World. Ok, they'll get to enjoy some of these features in a different, better way, everyone got that. Firing an AFM R-73 from a Su-27 is likely to be a lot more pleasant than being hit by an AFM Strela in my A-10. But still - expanded theatre, resources manager, new 3d models, how's that any different between FC3 and DCS World ? Why are these "key FC3 features" at all ?

 

So the artificialy expanded features list is just a way to try and justify the high price tag - just like it was done for BS2. But a lot of them are not "key FC3 features" at all.

 

I'd be much more happy if ED just said "okay we need more money to keep going and do more high fidelity stuff in the future, please buy FC3 to support us". A lot of people already understood it that way and will be happy to buy FC3 just for the sake of buying something from ED. I'd totally buy a DCS module $100 if it delivers an high-fidelity plane and a several feet long "key features list" that doesn't need any bloating to look solid.

 

But the way it's done here, telling people they'll get FC3 features that are already in DCS World (the "expanded theatre" is the best example), is misleading at best, and once again it's a way of milking the people that have been around here for the most time.

 

So for $40, you can either get the A-10C, or bring network compatibily to your old planes, have wheels that don't stick to the ground, and a 6DOF cockpit that looks so great I'd be surprised not to see it in DCS : Eagle at some point. Yep. Seems fair.

 

Edit : I say ED but when it comes to commercial strategy and business decisions, I guess TFC has the most responsibility in those.

 

 

Then should everything be free because DCS World is free?

 

FC3 gets you multiple playable fighters with AFM missiles in DCS World. Unless you pay $40, you're not going to get that. I don't think it's priced unfairly at all. DCS may have lots of switches and things, but at this point FC3 is a better modern fighter that anything DCS. Even FC2 is.

I see - it would be ok then if these features were FC3 exclusive then?

 

Nate

How about people who already own FC1 and FC2? FC3 is more of an upgrade for them, yet the price is still $40? Black Shark 2 was sold in an upgrade version for those, who already had BS1, why not the same policy?

 

I think for that price, we could at least get a new plane.

Edited September 2, 2012 by mmaruda