Auto Lase

So I always set Auto lase to on when I fly with GBU 10 and 12 bombs and I make sure I save it. But when it comes time to drop them the Auto lase is off and I have to use manual lase. It's no big deal but I wonder what keeps turning it off. Any Ideas? I know that I save it before going back to DSMS.

Hey Pinefang,

are you setting an amount of time for the laser to fire? I usually use 15 to 20 sec. it is entered on the same page where you turn on auto lase on the left about half way down.

So I always set Auto lase to on when I fly with GBU 10 and 12 bombs and I make sure I save it. But when it comes time to drop them the Auto lase is off and I have to use manual lase. It's no big deal but I wonder what keeps turning it off. Any Ideas? I know that I save it before going back to DSMS.

In order to arm a weapon with the saved profile it must be selected using OSB14 followed by OSB1 to select it from the list.

...or the UFC rocker switch.

Or, you know, just make HUD SOI (Coolie Hat up short) and change to the weapon profile with DMS left/right. You might need to hit the MMCB first if you did not select another weapon before but it's certainly the best way because you keep your Hands On Throttle And Stick ;) :D

I am selecting the munition on the profile control page OSB 14 then OSB 1, I arrow down to the GBU 12 or 10 and set it to CCRP, then select CHG SET and select auto Lase and 20-30 seconds lase time then save. I just reran a mission and noticed that it will only save the profile if I have the munition selected in the DSMS before I go to the profile page. I don't think that is right. You shouldn't have to select each munition that you want to change a profile on anywhere but in the profile control page.

How are you actually selecting your weapon for delivery?

First of all, 20-30s lase time is way too much and will probably cause the bomb to miss. Use 10-14 seconds, not more (I use 12s).

What you want to do is go to the DSMS page, hit PROF, select the weapon profile you want to change, make your changes and save.

You need to use the HOTAS or the UFC (not sure which rocker key it actually is I'd guess it's the SEL one) to select the profile to have it ready immediately otherwise you need to select the profile via the profile page (if you select the weapon it will be the standard profile) in your DSMS.

The fastest way to change profiles is certainly with your HOTAS because you keep your hands where they're supposed to be

Be wary of too long lase time with Paveway II series bombs as they use bang-bang guidance. Such guidance relies on two state switching (i.e. min and max deflection of control surfaces without nothing in between) and causes high drag. Basically, the earlier you begin the lasing, the more energy will be bled. If your planned time of fall is something like 35s, and autolase is 30s, you risk getting a miss.

First of all, 20-30s lase time is way too much and will probably cause the bomb to miss. Use 10-14 seconds, not more (I use 12s).

I use 30-35 and never miss sooooo your point is kinda pointless. The only time i have ever had an issue with LGB's missing is on shots below 5,000 ft or if you short the lase time and the bomb doesn't have enough time/energy to correct course when the laser does start firing. even in those scenarios missing is rare. Most cases the target moves or you just flat out missed with the TGP. money would say misses are 99% pilot error.

Harzach I actually select my weapon by depressing the OSB next to the weapon on the DSMS page. As for Lase time I have had no problems with 20-30 second lase times I usually always get my hit that is why I like to use the GBUs. However as I have said, setting up the weapon profile does not want to save unless I have also selected the weapon on the DSMS page. I will have to do the training mission and see how it is done there then maybe I can figure this out.

As far as short lase times, and I may be wrong here but it seems to me that since the laser is used to zero the weapon in on the target after release if the release was poor and way off then it seems to me that a longer lase time would be needed to get the bomb back on course. We are talking moving 500 to 2000 lbs of dead weight with some pretty small wings on these bombs so It just seems logical that the longer you give it to correct itself the better your hits would be. Of course I'm no expert.

Harzach I actually select my weapon by depressing the OSB next to the weapon on the DSMS page.

By doing so, you are selecting the default profile for that weapon. You need to select your saved profile through one of the methods mentioned above.

Be wary of too long lase time with Paveway II series bombs as they use bang-bang guidance. Such guidance relies on two state switching (i.e. min and max deflection of control surfaces without nothing in between) and causes high drag. Basically, the earlier you begin the lasing, the more energy will be bled. If your planned time of fall is something like 35s, and autolase is 30s, you risk getting a miss.

Generally true, but this has been discussed here at length, the consensus being that it doesn't make as much of a difference at the A-10C's lower speeds. Still, I tend to stick to @12 seconds of lase time.

OK, here is what MAY be going wrong and is usually a messy topic to talk about since it's a bit wonky how it works.

OK, let's say on your A-10 you have two weapons, your GBU-12's and then rockets.

You went into your profile, and you did everything right, saved it, done. You did this while on the ground, or in the air shortly after take off, then you switched to something else, like NAV, or to your guns, or to your rockets, whatever. Basically you clicked out of the DSMS.

Now after you did your thang you said, OK time to go and select my GBU 12's!!!

Yey!

IF you select your GBU-12s MANUALLY by pressing the OSBs to select them from the DSMS, then what you are ACTUALLY doing is selecting the DEFAULT profile for that weapon.

It doesn't matter if you have a profile saved for it. Just by manually selecting the weapon you have entered the default profile. Hence why the bomb will be in CCIP and no auto lase when you select it.

Sooooo... what do we do?

We actually need to select our GBU-12's with our HOTAS commands.

So with the DSMS page up on the left MFD (just to see what's going on), you are going to make your HUD SOI.

Then you have to make sure you are in either CCIP or CCRP mode (Not in NAV or GUNS mode), and then you can press DMS left or right. By doing so, you will scroll through your different weapon profiles, you will have 2 of them, your rockets and your GBU-12's.

Whatever profile you saved for your GBU-12s will be there with the auto laze, once you select your GBU-12s this way.

It's a bit of a pain in the arse, but that's what you have to do.

Obviously though, if you go into your DSMS, and make the GBU-12 profile, press save and then leave it there, meaning you still have the GBU 12's selected, then you should be able to just proceed from there. So basically, you are flying along, you see that you need to drop a GBU-12, so you quickly go into your DSMS, and set up the profile for it and then right after you press save, the GBU-12s should be still selected with it's profile now engaged.

Hope this helped.

PS: Lase time of 15 seconds is the general average most A-10C DCS users use without fail.

By doing so, you are selecting the default profile for that weapon. You need to select your saved profile through one of the methods mentioned above.

So that's why my changes are never saved... maybe I should have read the manual properly :music_whistling:

Rep inbound.

Giving 20 seconds of fall time is about the minimum. 14 or so seconds of laser will usually guarantee a hit, but only if dropped level and on target (5 mil zone on the ccrp). In high wind, it helps to veer slighty into it (a crosswind).

I bound a key to the UFC rocker switch and don't use the hotas to change profiles. It always works, regardless of SOI.

Ralfidude, thanks for the indepth reply. Now it makes total sense to me. Rep coming your way. Thanks too to all of you that were trying to say the same thing but I just wasn't getting it you were on the right track using the HOTAS to cycle the weapons. I guess I can see the reason to be able to select between your own profile and the loaded one.

Generally true, but this has been discussed here at length, the consensus being that it doesn't make as much of a difference at the A-10C's lower speeds. Still, I tend to stick to @12 seconds of lase time.

Just to give another data point, I use 50 seconds and I never miss.

So I always set Auto lase to on when I fly with GBU 10 and 12 bombs and I make sure I save it. But when it comes time to drop them the Auto lase is off and I have to use manual lase. It's no big deal but I wonder what keeps turning it off. Any Ideas? I know that I save it before going back to DSMS.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=75876

AMMV...

As the Autolase-issue has already been resolved...

Why not lase manually?

You can set the laser in latch mode, so you don't have to keep NWS pressed while lasing. To do so, enter the CTRL page of the TGP and set latch to on (right side, OSB 8?). If latch is set to on, the first press of NWS will activate the laser, the second press will deactivate it.

As the Autolase-issue has already been resolved...

Why not lase manually?

You can set the laser in latch mode, so you don't have to keep NWS pressed while lasing. To do so, enter the CTRL page of the TGP and set latch to on (right side, OSB 8?). If latch is set to on, the first press of NWS will activate the laser, the second press will deactivate it.

Personal preference, I'd say. If you can prepare your attack beforehand, you don't have to worry to not forget such tiny things like manually starting to lase ... :o)

Hope this helped.

Oh yeah, thanks Ralfi for decoding this mystery i´ve always wondered :joystick:

Reputation inbound...

I used to have the same problem , so now instead of messing with the default profile i always make a custom new one for auto lasing. It takes a few seconds but it ensures you'll always know 100% sure you've got the right thing selected

The only issue I've read with lazing pretty much from the drop is at orientations where the bomb is taken out of its natural flight path by veering directly to the target to chase the laser. The point was that it would reduce a bomb's reach since it would not arc downwards in its normal fashion using the last 10-12 seconds to fine tune its course (since even without laser guidance the bomb would still land reasonably close to target) and would instead cut the corner and try to maintain a straight path to target the duration of its flight.

This limitation may not be accurately modeled however it is generally why people limit themselves to 10-12 second laze times.