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Use of the rudders


hopeless

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Hello,

 

Slightly embarrassing question but I'm not sure how often I should be using the rudder pedals during flight. I use them during take-off and landing (when I've landed) but aside from that my feet are idle.

 

What's the correct procedure specifically for the A-10 on how to use them?

 

I notice during the take-off training mission where I have to do a level turn and the instructor mentions the rudder and something about slip. I never get to complete this step because I'm doing something wrong.

 

Any help would be welcome.

 

Thanks.

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I know this a picture of the Black Shark, but humor me.

 

TRIM-ADI2a.jpg

 

The A-10C has an artificial horizon that looks remotely like this. Just like the bottom of this picture, listed as "The ball" is your slip and skid indicator. The 2 black lines in the glass tube are your sweet spot. You use this instrument to determine if you're in a coordinated or an uncoordinated turn. The rule "step on the ball" would help you determine your need. Ideally, you want that ball centered between the 2 black lines for a coordinated turn.

 

You can also use the rudder pedals to make fine adjustments on gun and rocket runs...

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Damien

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I think I get it, thanks.

 

So if I'm starting a left turn, the ball is going to shift left too, so I need to apply a little rudder to the left to keep it centred?

 

I find doing a complete 360 roll, the ball is all over place. It happens so fast, by the time I've levelled out again, I've lost about 400 feet in altitude.

 

I just tried the training mission and just can't complete the 360 degree left turn.

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right rudder to eliminate side slide. when you make a left hand turn the plane wants to drop to the ground because your "lift" isnt working purely against gravity anymore. the lift is making you turn. so some right rudder during a left turn helps your plane fight gravity. vice versa for a right hand turn.

 

at least i think so. could be wrong. and trust me, there will be a lot of things "i cant do" while playing this game. keep practicing though. its all about practice.

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Thanks, that makes sense. I will keep at it.

 

The manual defeated me last year and I gave up and slunk back to BF3. I'm determined this time to nail this thing even if it takes me the next 5 years.

 

Thanks fellas. Rep to you all. Right, back to the flight book..page 51..:book:

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Doesn't the A-10 have some kind of augmented flight control system that automatically adds a bit of rudder for you? What kind of authority does that system have?

 

Yes it does. They mostly fly with there feet on the floor. YAW SAS is the system.

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Chris

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The basic rule is to "step on the ball", ie press the rudder pedal corresponding to whatever direction the slip indicator ball has moved.

 

The SAS system on the A-10 dramatically reduces the requirement to use the rudder, almost to the point where you don't need to worry about it for normal flight.

 

It won't cancel out crosswinds on landing though. You'll need to do that yourself.

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I think I get it, thanks.

 

So if I'm starting a left turn, the ball is going to shift left too, so I need to apply a little rudder to the left to keep it centred?.

 

This diagram may describe it better than I can..

 

lesson2figure08.gif

 

-Damien

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there you have it, damien proved what i said earlier....incorrect. and you were correct OP. thanks for the clarification. my idea of side slip is something else entirely

I had a hard time trying to verbally explain it myself.. I feel the old adage that "a picture is worth a thousand words" applies here. Cheers!

 

-Damien

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To complement the pictures on what actually happens with the aircraft. When doing a left turn, i.e. banking to the left you also press left rudder. What happens is that as the aircraft starts its turn to the left the outboard wing (right side in this example) makes a bigger circle compared to the inboard (left). This causes an increase in drag on the outboard wing compared to the inboard. That drag will pull the nose to the outside of the turn, to the right in a left hand turn and vice versa in a right hand turn. You use the rudder to counter that by yawing into the turn.

 

Another use of rudders is to do a sideslip. This can be used to quickly loose altitude if you find yourself too high on for instance an approach. You push real hard on the rudder in one direction which causes the plane to yaw and also loose airspeed due to increase of drag. You counter the loss of airspeed by pitching down. At the same time you maintain your track by roll inputs. Pretty much the opposite of a coordinated turn, you fly as "uncoordinated" as possible while maintaining a straight track. It´s a lot to keep track of, airspeed being the most important, but once you "get it" it´s easy to perform. Not sure if that maneuver is done in jets with airbrakes though, still a good pilot should know all of his tools and when to apply them ;)

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mainly for crosswind landings, takeoffs, taxi. I use them to center the ladder between the text columns when making aggressive corner turns for gun runs or CCIP, also to limit the sway of the ladder and putting it centered on target for the tracking phase.

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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umm.. you do know that the 360 degree left turn is not a barrel roll.. right? it's just a slight turn to the left orbiting a point on the earth maintaining a specific altitude..

 

-Damien

 

oh. dammit haha. What an idiot I am! :doh:

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I finally got past that mission.

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

:slowly backs away from the thread:

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To complement the pictures on what actually happens with the aircraft. When doing a left turn, i.e. banking to the left you also press left rudder. What happens is that as the aircraft starts its turn to the left the outboard wing (right side in this example) makes a bigger circle compared to the inboard (left). This causes an increase in drag on the outboard wing compared to the inboard. That drag will pull the nose to the outside of the turn, to the right in a left hand turn and vice versa in a right hand turn. You use the rudder to counter that by yawing into the turn.

 

To further complement that, using the ailerons to bank creates an even stronger adverse yaw. Say you're banking left, this means you use the ailerons to generate increased lift on the right and reduced lift on the left. As more lift means more drag, the aircraft will yaw to the right if you don't use rudders to counter the force.

 

Both effects are less pronounced on aircraft with low aspect ratio wings such as fighters and more on the A-10 (and most on gliders).

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The basic rule is to "step on the ball", ie press the rudder pedal corresponding to whatever direction the slip indicator ball has moved.

 

The SAS system on the A-10 dramatically reduces the requirement to use the rudder, almost to the point where you don't need to worry about it for normal flight.

 

It won't cancel out crosswinds on landing though. You'll need to do that yourself.

 

Ok, that's dramatically different coming from the F-16: The flight control system crabs it into the wind for you.

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oh. dammit haha. What an idiot I am! :doh:

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I finally got past that mission.

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

:slowly backs away from the thread:

Glad to hear we got you straightened out!

 

-Damien

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New to DCS Warthog and just now getting everything functional. Didn't realize that when on the ground, you can't turn the front wheel with the HOTAS stick as you can with other sticks. Are rudder pedals required in DCS? If so, what's the recommended brand most people are using?

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Not sure if that maneuver is done in jets with airbrakes though, still a good pilot should know all of his tools and when to apply them ;)

 

Good advice! Also, this maneuver can be quite the life saver.

 

I used to lose control in a forward slip, but with a bit of practice it's pretty doable. With the A-10, it's a good idea to gradually push the pedal and not do it in a single, fast push because that can kick the plane out of balance.


Edited by Yurgon
Typo
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Thanks for your response. Any recommendations for rudder pedals that are fully compatible with both HOTAS & DCS?

 

Look for anything with USB connectors - which is pretty much the whole product range nowadays. :)

 

Saitek Pro Flight Combat pedals are what most of us use, you can't go wrong with them.

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