Air-to-Air Missile Discussion

It's back at FC2 levels and that's where it will stay for now.

Nevermind, ill continue the discussion in the other thread?

The same parameters are used for all playable SARH missiles at the moment with respect to chaff rejection so this thread is appropriate.

My point is that I seriously doubt any more action will be taken right now in terms of tuning chaff rejection - at this point, IMHO that's not even the correct course of action to take.

As I understand, kinetic energy of missiles in FC3 is a big factor to how good missiles reject chaff?

I don't believe that to be the case from what I have heard.

There was the chaff being set to wrong RCS, and I believe there was another bug that was fixed that had to do with missiles dropping track, but I'm not clear on that one.

Missile kinematics are supposedly completely divorced from the chaff rejection algorithm (note that this doesn't mean missile speed doesn't affect countermeasure rejection in certain ways - ie. getting the missile closer to the bandit faster means reducing the amount of CMs in the FoV - but it's not part of the CM rejection code), and it is a separate problem which has caused much debate.

, and it is a separate problem which has caused much debate.

Was referring to that debate. I have no clear data or understanding to get involved. My self look at it as such, DCS pilots should be forced to employ realistic reaction to threats to stay alive, even if that means to divert from known facts of missile in order to create realistic reaction from pilots.

That has nothing to do with the kinematics. Kinematics will only affect the range at which you will have to do these things.

That has nothing to do with the kinematics. Kinematics will only affect the range at which you will have to do these things.

Not true. I do not know why, perhaps because the Doppler effect in AIM120 because of to large reductions distances because of high speed missiles (I know, this is not modeled), but if AIM120C slow its lock is interrupted when a defensive turn, when we turn at the time of transition 90 degrees. When AIM120C fast, missile not loses lock!!!

The doppler effect should only be modeled with respect to the notch, not chaff - at this point.

Countermeasure rejection is completely stochastic, as far as I know. If you have a missile going slower, then it can certainly have a lot more CM's inside its FoV, which will increase the probability of biting on chaff.

If there are other factors, I don't know them - but I've been led to believe it's completely stochastic, modified by the number of CMs in the FoV of the missile (regardless of who drops them BTW, you can chaff/flare for your friend! ;) ) and the target aspect (the latter in an attempt to simulate some doppler rejection. But again, it's not doppler simulation)

There was the chaff being set to wrong RCS, and I believe there was another bug that was fixed

And another fact! I do not know if I wrote about it earlier, but ARH sensor cannot react when the target is moving at more than 30 degrees per second in sight! So it should be...

No, this is already done in the existing patch, AFAIK.

Как сказал Чиж, это исправлено в патче, который еще не вышел. Т. е. у нас пока старые значения с ЭПР дипольных отражателей 10 кв. м. ЭПР 3 кв. м будет в следующем патче.

So it has to be 10m away from the target to get that sort of rate.

And another fact! I do not know if I wrote about it earlier, but ARH sensor cannot react when the target is moving at more than 30 degrees per second in sight! So it should be...

no missile launch warning in the F-15 when R-27 fired at it got killed many times cause no warning when fired upon really annoying.

no missile launch warning in the F-15 when R-27 fired at it got killed many times cause no warning when fired upon really annoying.

This only happens when the its the ET as its IR and thus no warning, or an ER is fired in an RWR deadzone. The deadzone occurs when the attacking aircraft is at an angle greater than 30 degrees above or below the defending. Being banked greater than 30 degrees induces this RWR blindness.

What kind of R-27? What the parameters of the shot?

Flying DCS A-10C you can get quite used to the luxury of the MWS, FC3 aircraft can only dream of such advantages.

Whoever said FC v DCS fighters will be easier for FC pilots really didn't sit down and think about it.

MWS means what? Sry for that kind of question... I don't own A-10C... :/

MWS means what? Sry for that kind of question... I don't own A-10C... :/

It's stands for Missile Warning System. It's essentially an array of optical sensors placed around an aircraft that detect the flash of light from a missile launch. The system then alerts the pilot to the missile launch and also tells him the rough direction and distance. It's a powerful tool that gives a pilot a fighting chance against IR as well as radar guided missles.

Oh yes, that system, of course I knew, I just didnt get the short term "MWS"... :P

They basically "see" the waves of the light the burning missile fuel is producing, right?

And also, the MWS has unlimited range? o_O

Oh yes, that system, of course I knew, I just didnt get the short term "MWS"... :P

 

They basically "see" the waves of the light the burning missile fuel is producing, right?

Something along those lines.

And also, the MWS has unlimited range? o_O

Not to sure on it's effective range, but I'm sure it varies from situation to situation.

This only happens when the its the ET as its IR and thus no warning, or an ER is fired in an RWR deadzone. The deadzone occurs when the attacking aircraft is at an angle greater than 30 degrees above or below the defending. Being banked greater than 30 degrees induces this RWR blindness.

well not the case on at-least 4 that i know of co alt and head to head and 3 i know were from almost dead six long but still and this angle biz i i will have to look that up.

but as we all know rus missile can skim below 10 ft and kill there target but USA missile can not. so what ever this is to much of a possible hostile thread im not going to argue a mute point that has been going on since the original lockon.

ps (its like talking to a wall)

well not the case on at-least 4 that i know of co alt and head to head and 3 i know were from almost dead six long but still and this angle biz i i will have to look that up.

 

but as we all know rus missile can skim below 10 ft and kill there target but USA missile can not. so what ever this is to much of a possible hostile thread im not going to argue a mute point that has been going on since the original lockon.

 

ps (its like talking to a wall)

'but as we all know'

To be frank you don't seem to know much regarding the sim.

An R-27ET won't give you a warning because it is an infrared seeker the same as an R-73 and AIM-9. This is what is hitting you without warning, it states this in the manual.

The only missiles that won't track below 20metres are R-27ER and R-27R.

Next is the AIM-7 which goes slightly lower, then the AIM-120B which tracks down to a couple of metres off the ground.

Finally the AIM-120C, R-27ET, R-27T, R-73, AIM-9L, AIM-9P all track all the way down to 1 metre above ground.

ok what ever

 

i have flown

LockOn

 

Flaming Cliffs 1/2&3

 

same issues same argument and apparently you dont know cause no US missile would hit nothing under 5 meter would go plunk right in the dirt.

 

like i said ( im not going to argue a mute point that has been going on since the original lockon.

 

ps (its like talking to a wall))

From what I can make out you're trying to say that US missiles alone don't hit their target below 5m. What you've actually written doesn't make any sense, this might be why you get blank responses (wall).

The 10 metre exploit affected all radar missiles not just US ones. US IR missiles hit below 10m the same as Russian ones. But that is history.

No, not what-ever ... Frostie is correct, and you don't know what you're talking about.

AIM-120's have been made to track at very long altitude for along time no, never-mind the heat seekers.

While the '20m exploit' exists, it exists at '3m' against the most advanced missiles, and if you're good enough to fly that low and not get scraped off on the ground, more power to you.

This isn't going to change for the moment.

ok what ever