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Reworked Cockpit Views with proper Neck


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I have taken ALL the steps in the readme. Two times to doublecheck.

I did change the Snapviews in the Saved Games path.

I have even repaired my DCS install and tried again with a fresh.

It no worky for me. wink.gif

Even with the default files, as soon as I change this UseDefaultSnapViews to False, my HUD gets enlarged. So something else might be borked.

Or I am not a good modder. biggrin.gif

 

It's fine, though. I'll manage without. Thanks for the mod no less!

Thanks,

Will add a more clearer un-install instruction - this might happens (your quote in bold) because the newly added snapviews.lua of mine gets active and it is not intended to work with the default view limits.

You also have to delete this file from your savedgames folder and or recreate snapviews for the default view like it is written down in the readme.

 

But this doesn't explains the 'issues' you have at all .

 

And What exactly means "I have taken ALL the steps" ?

 

I checked the mod twice with a fresh 1.2.4 install before uploading the RC2.11 in all modules and with all flavours in each possible cockpit - and it worked always as intended - the current version is now downloaded over 200 times - I would expect more issues-reports like yours if there would be a failure in the files ...

 

 

If yo want me to have a closer look I clearly need more detailed info about the exact steps you have made. - so I can exactly reproduce them without the need to guess at all.

 

Example answer I'm looking for:

 

I have DCS World version XXXX installed .

And this are the modules I'm using: XXXX, XXXX, ...

 

 

It was a clean DCS world installation

or

I have this Mod(s) Installed beforehand/afterwards using your mod : LINKS TO MODS

 

I did choose flavour > put in a,b,c,d <

 

Than I had these issue(s) in cockpit XXXX :

 

Example:

A10C

Front/Back Up/down Left/Right

Info: I'm able to go with my head through the canopy - needs shorter limits.

 

And I wasn't able to solve it by readjusting and saving a new default cockpit view.

 

and so on ....

More info = better - I'm not a mentalist or can look over your shoulder.

 

:)


Edited by PeterP

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Hello PeterP,

 

I think that I well understand how installed your Mod but I would like to know if everything is OK.

 

In first here the addons that I possess:

A-10C

KA-50

P-51D

Huey UH-1H

 

In second I do not possess FC3.

 

Here my installation method:

 

1:

So I've chosen this folder: "Huey installed".

 

2:

I've copied your folder "View" in this path: C:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Config

 

3:

I've copied your file "mainpanel_init.lua" in this path: C:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Uh-1H\Cockpit\Scripts

 

For the Huey everything seems OK but for my A-10C I have a problem with my HUD.

 

As it's not easy to explain I join you two screenshots of my HUD with your Mod, please can you tell me if it's wrong or right ?

 

8791741920_8a0548060b_b.jpg

 

 

8791737614_996933188d_b.jpg

 

 

Please can you explain to me if the vision through my HUD is wrong or right ?

 

Once again a great thanks in advance for your assistance, Skull.

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..everything is fine and your installation is OK

, but you clearly should have some read/web-search how a collimated HUD works and what happens with the projection when you lean forward (and why this is so important for aiming and the right position of nav-points).

...and don't mix up leaning forward with zoom/aka FOV - as your second picture is clearly not zoomed - you just lean forward.


Edited by PeterP
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Hello,

 

In first I would like to thanks for your explanations, so if I well understand the functioning of the HUD it's normal that with your new Mod I cannot see all the data on my HUD when I'm on my seat ?

If I want read all the data on my HUD I must lean forward and not using the zoom ?

There's few minutes I found this video:

 

At the time code: 1'04" we can see the player lean forward and we can read all the data, with your Mod is it the same constation ?

 

So I would like to thank you again for your assistance, I'm very sorry for my poor English and I hope that you have well understand my explanations...

 

Once again, congratulation for the quality of your Mod, best regards. Skull

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Hello dear pilots,

 

Once again I have a question for our friend PeterP, there's few minutes I've made one little video where you can watch the data in my HUD, in this video I never used the zoom, just lean forward and move in lateral left and right.

Please can you confirm me that everything is OK with my HUD ?

And concerning the data of my HUD when I lean forward I can read all these data and when I lean backward (sit in my ejection seat).

 

Here my little video:

 

 

I would like to thank you for your help beacause sometime it's not easy to use few Mods.

Skull.

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All is OK... if you want to see completely the HUD you need to lean forward but you can also set your default SnapView a little bit forward... like a new "origin point" from where you can lean more forward if you wish but within 6DoF limits from your server.lua.

 

To set up your new personal SnapView default you need to press LWin +F1 and then move your view forward with RAlt+Num* and after you are satisfied press Alt+Num0 to save this as your default view.

 

Please check the controls I have said above first... I am not 100% sure.

 

Also alternatively you can edit your self the SnapViews.lua from Saved Games\DCS\Config\View... search A-10C... 13th snap view position (last one) and modify the X trans value very little... ad 0.05 for start.

 

Also make your tests without Head tracking so you will not introduce by shaking your head modifications to all values when you save the snap view via RAlt+Num0 key.

 

Also you need to be aware of the, lets say FOV, factors...

 

1. you have a default FOV in DefaultSnapViews.lua --this is like what the game recommends

2.You have a default FOV in SnapViews.lua --this is what you prefer

3. You have FOV limits in Server.lua --this is the min and max limits that either the game or you choose to set

4. You have a FOV setting by your Zoom Axis if it is on a axis on a controller. --this is your input

 

When game starts it will go from the max FOV from Server.lua towards the FOV in DefaultSnapViews.lua and at the end of that "animation" it will "snap" to your FOV from SnapViews.lua and again finally "snap" to your FOV set up by the position of the rotary that controls the Zoom axis.

 

Maybe my explanation is a bit confusing but this is what happens and you should not start modifying your snap view settings until all that animation is over and you made sure you are in max zoom out via your zoom axis control. That's why is better to turn off head tracking (I need to close freetrack completely not just turn off my LEDs) so it will not add more complications.

 

After all animation is over just press once Num5 to make sure you are in "default starting point of view".

 

Look at it and decide if the HUD is not visible if you would like to move forward so it is more visible... as I discribed above.

 

PS Very important is to understand the difference between ZOOM/FOV and leaning forward. Zooming your lenses is not the same as moving the camera towards the subject of the photo.


Edited by zaelu

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Hello dear pilots,

 

Once again I have a question for our friend PeterP, there's few minutes I've made one little video where you can watch the data in my HUD, in this video I never used the zoom, just lean forward and move in lateral left and right.

Please can you confirm me that everything is OK with my HUD ?

And concerning the data of my HUD when I lean forward I can read all these data and when I lean backward (sit in my ejection seat).

 

Here my little video:

 

 

I would like to thank you for your help beacause sometime it's not easy to use few Mods.

Skull.

 

Do basically what Zealu wrote (well, I have some annotations - see end of this post)- set up a new default cockpit view that suits you.

BTW(I can't help it!): it's also explained how to set up a new view in the Readme.txt :

 

 

Use "All planes-modules test.miz" to test the views

 

You should really have a look how to customize your own default cockpit view when using this files.

(But leave the Huey as it is - only change FOV - and the vertical view angle - as moving the view will mess up the gunner views/flexible sight )

 

Here is a "HowTo" >>> http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Snap_views

I already enabled the snap-views saving in the attached default View.lua - so no need for you to do the edit - just posting the link for completeness.

 

 

and here is a list of the needed key-commands.

(Yes - I know how hard it is for some of you to look it up your own in the options ...)

Disable your Track-IR/Head-tracker while doing it !

 

 

 

"Num/ - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Back

"Num5 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Center

"Num2 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Down

"Num* - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Forward

"Num8 - RCtrl - RShift" Cockpit Camera Move Up

"Num/" FOV- aka Zoom-in

"Num*" FOV+ aka Zoom-out

"NumEnter" Default FOV aka Zoom

 

 

"RCtrl+Num0" Save current Cockpit view as default for this vehicle

 

------------------------------------------------

EDIT:

@ Zalu

 

Your instruction/explanation has some flaws I want to correct:

 

To set up your new personal SnapView default you need to press LWin +F1

You don't have to choose a snapview beforhand to change the default cockpit view- staying in the F1 view is just what you need.

 

 

[...]

 

When game starts it will go from the max FOV from Server.lua towards the FOV in DefaultSnapViews.lua and at the end of that "animation" it will "snap" to your FOV from SnapViews.lua and again finally "snap" to your FOV set up by the position of the rotary that controls the Zoom axis.

No - this 'animation' is not the transmission from 'default' to the 'snapview set'.

The end view is not your set default view - you can recheck it by hitting [NumEnter] ( your set default FOV)

Check this thread to learn more what it is and why it happens , look for mine /vipers postings to get the most useful info out of it:

>>> Start of Mission Zoom Effect + Track IR

[...]

 

:)


Edited by PeterP

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Hello Peter and Zaelu,

 

I would like to thank you for your explanations and your kindness, now I think that I understand how used this Mod

One thing that I'm sure: This Mod is awesome and incredible !!!

Once again I would like to thank you for your assistance.

Best regards. Skull

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Thank you !

 

Here are some general remarks about the HUD in the A-10 that may interest you too (same applies to the F15 - but much more prominent):

 

>>> # 22

 

and

 

>>> # 17

 

and

 

>>> # 97

 

and

 

>>> Big HUD Font for A-10C

(can be useful for singelscreen users when setting up a greater FOV (> 70°+) - so you are still able to read the text without to zoom in. BTW: can't do it for the F-15 , as the HUD is Hard-coded )


Edited by PeterP

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@ Zaelu

Your instruction/explanation has some flaws I want to correct:

:)

 

Yes, it is true... i couldn't remember the keyboard combination for activating "cockpit transitions" but now I reached home and looking through notes I remembered there is none... :) You simply press RCtrl+RShift+Num/ and RCtrl+RShift+Num* for moving viewpoint back and forth in cockpit.

 

As for the animation... you could be right but for me looked like this is what it does... zooming in not out and I observed that if I set same value for Max FOV in Server.lua (say 90°) and also set 90° in defaultsnapview.lua and also 90° in snapview.lua this animation is very short and "bearable" :D .

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I´ve done a couple of AAR´s with the new Version, and it makes a big difference to what it was before. I have a pretty good Overview on the Tanker and the Boom-Area without Head-Movement, which makes it a lot more relaxed and easier. SA in Combat / as AFAC has been increased too.

 

Thanks again Peter. :)

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What Skulleader posted is exactly the issue I get, not with the HUD (I get the collimated part), but when the 'head' is in the 'default' position, it looks like my viewpoint is perpendicular exactly to the slanted glass on the HUD. What I mean is in Skulleaders picture here, see how the UFC sides are slanted, where in the default views they're straight up and down?

 

8791741920_8a0548060b_b.jpg

 

I used the mod prior to 1.2.4 and it wasn't like this. And I did follow the instructions in the readme to the letter. Is this just 'how it is' now?

 

Edit: My bad, I guess that part is angled up in the real aircraft:

 

idzsOnqZqPbGG.jpg

 

I still don't feel like the view angle through the HUD is quite right.

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Than please, please, please, change your default view position like it is written down now nearly 20 times.

 

Further:

The default cockpit view is set up in a way that the HUD is in the upper half of the monitor. - just the same like ED did it in their defaults.

When you tilt up your view and 'lower' the HUD/UFC , to get the front-dash out of the monitor, the sides get stretched/distorted at the edges of your screen .

 

People, please just start to set up your default cockpit view position your own (as written in the Readme) instead letting someone dictate what view setting you have to use! - sorry that it is not by default exactly what you are looking for - but some people prefer to have a look at the instruments and not only at the HUD - so There must be a 'average' that suits somewhat everyone (yes, there are people that don't use a second monitor for Helios right 'under' their HUD ) - if your initial view is not what your looking for :

Read the Readme and take action! I can't do it for you!

And don't only tilt up/down ! it is also necessary to shift your viewpoint up/down , forward/backwards - this depends on your own individual sitting/view position and monitorsetup.

 

...I even wrote the needed key-presses down in the Readme...

 

 

And read this to get a better understand why the edges get distorted:

 

(...)

 

 

-Stretched view ? - reads like a too big FOV in conjunction to your (real)head position to your monitor. - this is in your own hands and I'm not responsible for it.

 

BTW: When you put on a 90° FOV in the sim but your monitor in front of you only covers 40° of your real view , the image gets stretched more and more to the sides.

 

This is a optical law - its like looking at a photo - you are watching a projection of a camera that hasn't the same parameters(position/FOV) as your eyes. When you tilt a photo in your hands it also gets distorted...- there isn't much you can do about it.

 

Solution:

 

A) Get a display/projection that covers a greater FOV in front of you

B) Move your head towards the monitor - so it covers your real FOV and it is matching what you have set-up in the sim

C) Get a real-time image warping software that counteracts it - but this will also smaller the usable Pixels/space on your monitor - as you have to 'push the boarders in' to counteract it. - so you end up with a smaller real FOV and a 'fish-bowl' effect - this form of warping is only working satisfying when using spherical/cylindric projections.

 

PeterP

I saw discussion some time ago regarding FOV settings in game vs IRL.

As far as I remember thread died without any results. But in fact now we have settings in game dictated mostly by usability and newcomer-happiness.

Probably it will be interesting for you to create mission+formula which can allow user to set real-life FOV based on alignment of location of objects on screen and calculated FOV based on size of monitor and distance from eye of user.

I can't do this myself as far I'm really bad in math, but can do some testings and data collection if needed. I'm pretty sure you already know all this laws of optic-and-angles.

 

A guide is also in the works and it's only merely purpose is to help the users understand why the things are like they are

(besides explaining how to edit all possible aspects them self an doing things like this

). - as posted here : #92

 

 

But creating a mission that guides you for this will be very disappointing for most of the users - when you have a Monitor that covers only ~40° of your real horizontal FOV (22" in a distance of ~70cm) - you will have to set up DCS also to a horizontal FOV of 40° - Than you will have all elements in real-size, but this is not usable in most cases at all.

 

EDIT:

(please understand me : it feels for me that since one week I'm just reposting in this thread what's already written down - so please give me a slack)

:):)

 

Now I want to read at least 5 postings from satisfied users in a row , so I can stop banging my head against the keyboard - It starts to hurt!

;)

 

Posting like this:

I´ve done a couple of AAR´s with the new Version, and it makes a big difference to what it was before. I have a pretty good Overview on the Tanker and the Boom-Area without Head-Movement, which makes it a lot more relaxed and easier. SA in Combat / as AFAC has been increased too.

 

Thanks again Peter. smile.gif

 

I think you mean 'without lateral head movement', right?!


Edited by PeterP

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I will reattempt this and record what I can. Thanks for everyone's input!

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Do you guys have any videos presenting the modded viepoint? Preferaly some recent version...

I have some vids - but you will absolute make no clue out of it - it's a thing you must feel your own.

 

EDIT:

The only thing I can think off and that would make a little sense : a 1 vs.1 comparison of default and modded - but it's relay takes some time and is a pain - as you can't really just playback one track with both versions - because the view will be totally messed up when switching to a unmodded view.


Edited by PeterP

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I have some vids - but you will absolute make no clue out of it - it's a thing you must feel your own.

 

EDIT:

The only thing I can think off and that would make a little sense : a 1 vs.1 comparison of default and modded - but it's relay takes some time and is a pain - as you can't really just playback one track with both versions - because the view will be totally messed up when switching to a unmodded view.

Give me the vid! ;)

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Hello everybody,

 

Once again I have a little question for PeterP, when I use the function: "RCtrl+Num0" Save current Cockpit view as default for this vehicle, please can you explain to me the name of the file who modified and where I can found this file ?

 

Exemple: If I've modified the cockpit view of my A-10C and used "RCtrl+Num0" where I can found the file modified ?

In the forlder of my A-10C or inside the folder of "View" ?

 

If I ask this question it's for save the original file before apply "RCtrl+Num0"...

 

I'm sorry for all my questions, a great thanks in advance for all...

Skull.

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Than please, please, please, change your default view position like it is written down now nearly 20 times.

 

Further:

The default cockpit view is set up in a way that the HUD is in the upper half of the monitor. - just the same like ED did it in their defaults.

When you tilt up your view and 'lower' the HUD/UFC , to get the front-dash out of the monitor, the sides get stretched/distorted at the edges of your screen .

 

People, please just start to set up your default cockpit view position your own (as written in the Readme) instead letting someone dictate what view setting you have to use! - sorry that it is not by default exactly what you are looking for - but some people prefer to have a look at the instruments and not only at the HUD - so There must be a 'average' that suits somewhat everyone (yes, there are people that don't use a second monitor for Helios right 'under' their HUD ) - if your initial view is not what your looking for :

Read the Readme and take action! I can't do it for you!

And don't only tilt up/down ! it is also necessary to shift your viewpoint up/down , forward/backwards - this depends on your own individual sitting/view position and monitorsetup.

 

...I even wrote the needed key-presses down in the Readme...

 

 

And read this to get a better understand why the edges get distorted:

 

EDIT:

(please understand me : it feels for me that since one week I'm just reposting in this thread what's already written down - so please give me a slack)

:):)

 

Now I want to read at least 5 postings from satisfied users in a row , so I can stop banging my head against the keyboard - It starts to hurt!

;)

 

Posting like this:

 

 

I think you mean 'without lateral head movement', right?!

 

 

to the quotes in the quote... the FoV has nothing to do with the real life eyes, it is exactly like to (when enlarging the FoV) trying to squish a 10x10 image into a 6x6 frame... this has nothing to do with how near to or how away from your nose the monitor is. The opposite applies when trying to reduce the FoV, but in the opposite direction to enlarging it. (looking into the bottom of a bowl v/s looking at the bottom of a bowl)

Stop misleading people with the real life "what the eye sees" image capture grail to video projection - you need to make this distinction, as it is two very distinct and different beasties.

 

and show a little patience with the fans... they will ask questions!

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Hello everybody,

.. when I use the function: "RCtrl+Num0" Save current Cockpit view as default for this vehicle, please can you explain to me the name of the file who modified and where I can found this file ?

 

I think is RAlt+Num0 and the file that gets modified is "SnapViews.lua" that is located in your user folder... like in C:\Users\Skulleader\Saved Games\DCS\Config\View\

 

In that file you need to look with Notepad++ for A10C cockpit "zone" which has 13 subsections. Section 13 (the last!) is the section that defines the "standard"/normal/straight ahead view. Which sometimes we call "default view" because is the first view we get when entering cockpit and usually we stay in it. But this "default" name can be confusing when other "default" words are used, for example when referring at the file "DefaultSnapViews.lua" located in your game folder\Config\View that looks similar with the one mentioned above but contains the... "default" snap views of the game... all of them...

 

And another little detail. It should not be surprising that when "SnapViews.lua file is created it contains all the cockpits and all the snapviews although you modified maybe just one. Obviously all other are just copies of the ones in DefaultSnapViews.lua file.

 

... the FoV has nothing to do with the real life eyes, ...

 

Stop misleading people with the real life "what the eye sees" image capture grail to video projection - you need to make this distinction, as it is two very distinct and different beasties.

 

I don't think PeterP doesn't know the differences or misleads people... Actually misleads is a very harsh word here. Like he is trying to scam someone... And who is he trying to scam? People that don't want to bother to understand how those 3 lua files interact with the game... And I don't blame them... they might not have time for it... so they want something simple and prefabricated... the same goes for the explanations... full explanation about how FOV got into the jargon and how is it different from actual moving of the camera towards subject in view is something that most people don't want to hear...

 

So PeterP might give a shorter explanation in his free time... maybe not the perfect one at that time... but to come now and call it a misleading... is, besides inaccurate and judgmental, just harsh.


Edited by zaelu

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Hello Zaelu,

 

I think is RAlt+Num0 and the file that gets modified is "SnapViews.lua" that is located in your user folder... like in C:\Users\Skulleader\Saved Games\DCS\Config\View\

 

Is it normal that I not the folder named "View" in this path: C:\Users\Skulleader\Saved Games\DCS\Config\ ???

 

I have one folder named "View" in the path: C:\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Config\View but not in the path that you speak, is it normal ?

 

I would like to thank you in advance for all, Skull.

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This is normal if you Server.lua file (or View.lua file... sorry I can't remember now but you can check) has the setting regarding using custom views on : FALSE. Those two files you will see them in Your game folder\Config\View\

 

The setting is somewhere in the first line... you should be able to spot it.

 

Also... if that setting is on "TRUE" meaning active then maybe you never used the save snap view command correctly so the file was never created. remember is RALt+Num0 not RCtrl!

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@Zaelu...

 

"misleading", doesn't mean "scamming". this is your wording and your slant and your misunderstanding... much the same as "moving the camera towards the subject" you mentioned is. FoV is about angles, not distances

City Hall is easier to fight, than a boys' club - an observation :P

"Resort is had to ridicule only when reason is against us." - Jefferson

"Give a group of potheads a bunch of weed and nothing to smoke out of, and they'll quickly turn into engineers... its simply amazing."

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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/misleading

 

misleading [mɪsˈliːdɪŋ]

adj

tending to confuse or mislead; deceptive

misleadingly adv

 

The only "neutral" sense of that word I found in English is when an object or a situation is misleading... meaning you could be mistaken to believe something is in a way but it is in another... when an human does the misleading... is only in a bad way... he tries to be deceptive. English is not my language but this is what I learned from experience with it...

 

"moving the camera towards the subject" you mentioned is. FoV is about angles, not distances

 

I think you don't understand what I am talking... seriously... You try to explain something that I didn't say. But I let you at it...

 

here is a quote from my self just at the start of the page... and the color is the original one...

 

PS Very important is to understand the difference between ZOOM/FOV and leaning forward. Zooming your lenses is not the same as moving the camera towards the subject of the photo.


Edited by zaelu

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A,

Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least

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