How To Fight In the P-51D

ok thought I would start a thread on the P-51D Flight handling during dogfighting engagements.

= How To Control and try to avoid that Stall in the P-51D.

=engine management during combat to decrease the chance of overheating.

=tips on gunnery skills.

post your experiences up and any tips for rookie pilots.

:>)

1) Before engaging in combat I open the radiators, both, to at least 80%... ( visual estimate ).

2) I use the fixed aim reticle

3) I set flaps to 1 or 2 notches when maneuvering at lower altitudes ( bellow 1000' )

4) I use the G-meter to avoid reaching the 4Gs while turning / climbing.

5) I am still trying to find the best leading shooting technique...

I turn on the combination sight mode which shows you the fixed sight and the gyro sight, then I turn the gyro on and set the wingspan to 38 feet and adjust the distance to whatever's appropriate.

I then open the radiators all the way and push the throttle up.

Then I die over and over and over again to people who know how to fly.

It's a hard life.

1) Before engaging in combat I open the radiators, both, to at least 80%... ( visual estimate ).

2) I use the fixed aim reticle

3) I set flaps to 1 or 2 notches when maneuvering at lower altitudes ( bellow 1000' )

4) I use the G-meter to avoid reaching the 4Gs while turning / climbing.

5) I am still trying to find the best leading shooting technique...

Set gunsight to fixed/gyro display

Maneuver to keep fixed cross off the nose of the enemy aircraft (maintain lead pursuit)

fine tune to bring gyro aimpoint onto target.

great posts so far if some of u guys could attach maybe some training tracks to view, gunnery skills , and how to recover or prevent going into stalls.

thx all.

Imagination !!

:-)

Try to poke more holes in them than they poke in me!

Seriously though my biggest tip is teamwork and numerical superiority. Skill comes second. Also resisting the urge to chase down and finish damaged enemy. That just makes you an easy target for his friends.

Stall prevention for me is 1 notch of flaps if maneuvering hard and FFB. Cant overstate how much of a help FFB is.

Gunnery: learn the gyro site and dont zoom in too far when shooting. You just over-control and spray bullets everywhere. Slight zoom. Size reticle to target wingspan and pull the reticle through the target tail to just ahead of his nose.

Generally i will fly a lag persuit until im happy I can pull lead for gunnery. Exceptions are when attempting to close range rapidly.

Disclaimer: I'm a bit rubbish at dcs

2) I use the fixed aim reticle

5) I am still trying to find the best leading shooting technique...

What?! Turn on the gyro reticle, that is what it's for...

Best rule = learn your coordinated turns!!! Nothing bleeds E worse in the game. Watch rudder trim and the slip ball... Get these under control first at varying speeds and only then start worrying about combat maneuvers

Edit ... Oh yeah , gyro all the way!!

 

Stall prevention for me is 1 notch of flaps if maneuvering hard and FFB. Cant overstate how much of a help FFB is.

 

FFB? Force Feedback? Only possible with a capable joystick, I guess, and even so.... or, does it mean there is an option in the sim to simulate force feedback even when you do not have a FFB joystick?

You need a FFB joystick.

= How To Control and try to void that Stall in the P-51D.

1) learn moving stick quickly, but smoothly. Avoid jerking it or moving in steps. Concentrate on "smoothly" part, and the "quickly" will come in time.

2) Don't let your hand aggressively chase your mind. I consider air combat to be a slow game due to lots of inertia. You usually already know that you did something wrong even before it turns out badly for you. I.e. you bounce the enemy and you see that bounce will fail because the angle is wrong, speed is misjudged, target reacted and so on. Mind of novice sees something is wrong, but it misses the point that it is already too late, so it lets the hand to correct what it thinks is wrong (i.e. angle). This causes aggressive last minute corrections involving energy loss and even stalls. If you think something will be wrong, it is already wrong, so resist the urge for aggressive correction and begin planning what you will do further.

3) practice sharp turns at varying speeds. Remember tip #1. If you do it smoothly, you will have opportunity to get visual stall warning. In time you will build memory of how much you can safely pull.

4) learn the elevator reversal phenomenon of P51. You need to recognize the moment P51 begins to pull more Gs than you want and you need to ease on the stick.

=engine management during combat to decrease the chance of overheating.

Minimize the time you are flying slowly. More airflow = better cooling. P51 cools quickly in a dive.

=tips on gunnery skills.

1) Gyro sight have huge constraints. It needs a cooperative target as it only tells truth at matching Gs in the same motion of plane. It was titled the "ace maker", but the truth is even mediocre pilot mind is superior to it for snap shots in out of plane maneuvers. If you are pulling you hair when using gyro, try a fixed sight - it is not so hard as you might think.

2) Don't walk the tracers to the target. Cease fire if your aim is off greatly, correct, shoot again.

3) It is better to aim too much in front of target in a turn, when too much in back of it, if you are attacking a better turner. In the first case you will fire, ease on the stick and allow the target to fly into the stream of bullets. In the second case you will have either pull while firing or cease fire and reaim - all of that can become impossible once a better tuner reacts to your first missed shots.

Not sure if I should open a new thread, or maybe search a thread where it is all explained already, but if someone can answer these questions maybe it might improve our survivability :)

How to use the throttle, mine is at 100%, 85% of the time!?

What is the most useful speed to start and end the turn to keep energy but still try too keep your enemy from your six.

What is the best altitude to fight Dora?

What is the best starting speed and climb rate for fast or long climbing, or maybe an immelmann turn?

That kind of stuff... :)

Universal answer to all of above - "it depends" :D.

Throttle and RPM usage will depend on coolant temperature, which also depends on airspeed. If You overheat and blow up Your engine a couple of times in slow dogfight, that will mean 100% throttle all the time is not a good idea ;). As mentioned previously, learning a habit of checking coolant and oil temps is mandatory.

Best altitude to fight Dora - nobody knows (current AI cheats anyway) but we'll all find out in two weeks when flyable version appears (hopefully with improved AI and damage modelling). However, I would certainly NOT like to fight this or any other plane around 15000 ft while 2nd speed of the supercharger still hasn't kicked in, while 1st one doesn't provide enough MAP anymore.

Recommended speed for prolonged climb is in the manual - 170 indicated with max continuous power settings. That will give You climb rate of ~2000 fpm depending on altitude and engine power. Obviously, any higher speed will yield higher climb rate, but only for some time, so there is no "best" value here.

I don't know about best instantaneous and sustained turn rates and speed required to get them, sorry. Some more experienced dogfighters will certainly help :D.

Hi,

I guess, there will be a great attraction / fun for multiplayer to train Basic Fighter Maneuvers - P51 vs FW 190

Good pilots of WWI and WWII thought in such maneuvers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers#BFM_concepts

MSFFB2 joysticks at ebay, $60 and up.

Worth more than every penny.:thumbup:

On P51 you don't .. just escort and run..... ;)

On P51 you don't .. just escort and run..... ;)

Against the 190D-9 and 109K-4? Dubious!:joystick:

Against the 190D-9 and 109K-4? Dubious!:joystick:

Nah, they won't care about running ponies, unless they run out of bombers to shoot at. :D

1. I have a butt kicker that is turned up and is quite good for giving you stall warning buffet

2. Go easy on the back pressure, the faster you are the less you need to maintain the turn

3. Yes co-ordinated/balanced turns give you the best turn rate and you bleed off speed slightly slower

4. Energy management, keep your airspeed and height up.

5. Against the AI 190 you have a better turning circle, he can out climb you, go faster than you, but can't turn as good, so keep the turning fight going if he gets on your six

6. Impossible without TrackIR, if you don't have it, get it.

7. If you do find yourself stalling and entering a snap roll because one wing has stalled, kick in hard opposite rudder and you should be able to bring it back pretty quickly, relax the back pressure though.

8. Maintain eyes on your target at all times, situation awareness!

9. Fight in 3 dimensions, don't get caught in a 2D fight i.e. just vertical or just horizontal. As long as you maintain energy, maintain eyes on the enemy, then if shouldn't matter too much which way you are pointed.

10. Use throttle and height to maintain separation so you don't overshoot.

11. I also use my blade pitch to slow down and maintain separation not just manifold pressure.

With high energy you should be able to turn holding with the vision just starting to tunnel. Hope that helps.

LOL..

post up some training tracks to view guys, show the skills.

1. I have a butt kicker that is turned up and is quite good for giving you stall warning buffet

2. Go easy on the back pressure, the faster you are the less you need to maintain the turn

3. Yes co-ordinated/balanced turns give you the best turn rate and you bleed off speed slightly slower

4. Energy management, keep your airspeed and height up.

5. Against the AI 190 you have a better turning circle, he can out climb you, go faster than you, but can't turn as good, so keep the turning fight going if he gets on your six

6. Impossible without TrackIR, if you don't have it, get it.

7. If you do find yourself stalling and entering a snap roll because one wing has stalled, kick in hard opposite rudder and you should be able to bring it back pretty quickly, relax the back pressure though.

8. Maintain eyes on your target at all times, situation awareness!

9. Fight in 3 dimensions, don't get caught in a 2D fight i.e. just vertical or just horizontal. As long as you maintain energy, maintain eyes on the enemy, then if shouldn't matter too much which way you are pointed.

10. Use throttle and height to maintain separation so you don't overshoot.

11. I also use my blade pitch to slow down and maintain separation not just manifold pressure.

 

With high energy you should be able to turn holding with the vision just starting to tunnel. Hope that helps.

His ability to outt-run you is completely dependent on altitude. Over 23,000ft, the Mustang is quite a bit faster than the 190. Bettween 23,000 to 16,000ish, the 190 has the advantage. Below that height they are roughly equal.

Lots of good input here. Been flying sims since 94....(dang...where has all that time gone?). The next two pieces that DCS has added to the flight sim evolutionary timeline are AFM and engine management ( rate of change in heat build-up and cooling).

1. Learn to zoom the P51 and while keeping it trimmed. Learn to turn in

vertical.

2. Learn how to recover from a spin in a direction that is advantageous to

fight. On your opponents six or 180 for extension.

3. Altitude is money in the bank....Speed is money in your pocket.

4. Listen to Kenny Rogers ....The Gambler :)

5. Study your turning using Tacview...its amazing.

Hi all, nice post here with some real good tips.

I'm eager to go try some of them, but unfortunately I don't have much time for practice because I tend to have the bandit at my six... :helpsmilie:

I'd really appreciate some tips for that moment when you can see the bandit is not only behind you but is also turning better than you, what evasive maneuver do you think is best?

I tend to go into an s-turn, but I just don't think it's the best unless you are planning to run like hell. Tuco mentioned at the beginning of the post climbing and cutting your throttle, is that a good choice?? The AI Dora does something similar from time to time, but as that is the moment I can get more hits, I don't feel comfortable doing it myself... :joystick: