navigation and target locating

as a uh-1 fan, i think su-25 is the most fun to fly aircraft.

but for God sake why isn't there any navigation devices like gps? in 2015 pilots find their way and location with just these gauges? they even don't have a smartphone with gps antenna?

and what is the screen in this video? an additional gps like device?

other thing is.. can you find targets when you are fully unaware about where the targets are? for instance, in mp server and the targets are hidden on map and no f2 view allowed?

There are navigation devices. There is an inertial nav system that requires waypoints to be put in during mission building.

There are also gyro and magnetic compasses, airspeed gauges, vertical velocity meters, artificial horizons, and altimeters. All of the instrumentation needed for IFR flight is available, and most of the key instruments have backups.

Navigation skills are a fundamental piloting skill, and the basics should be learned before initial flight training is completed.

It is not possible to be an effective combat pilot if you are not yet an effective aircraft pilot.

If you do not have the skills to navigate in real life using a map, compass, rate of travel, and a clock, then I recommend finding an instructional text and a great deal of practice. In addition to pilots, surveyors, hikers and sailors need to understand the basics of navigation, so educational materials are widely available in most languages.

For finding targets, in a sim you use methods similar to real life. First, you very carefully study the mission briefing for information on the location of enemy forces. If the information is incomplete, you look at the map and consider the goals of both friendly and enemy forces. With that information it is fairly easy to locate the most likely positions of enemies. Vehicles normally travel on roads, cross water using bridges, and if possible use hills, forests, and buildings for protection from hostile forces. If the mission designer did a good job, this will be true for the DCS mission as well, and in most cases that means there are very few places that enemies want to be, so it is easy to predict those areas.

In some cases the mission designer will do a poor job, and targets will be in strange places. In those missions you must do a visual search, and it helps a great deal if you are flying as part of a team with several people searching at the same time. Often the easiest way to find hidden forces is to see them shooting at a wingman flying over them.

Well I understand what he ask for. He is right, we need a GPS or Glonas device like a module. New WPT and enemy petition can bet set with a GPS or Glonas device.

use the kneeboard. It's basically a free GPS, just remember to hit the key to mark your position (i think default is rctrl-k) and bam, instant view of your position and heading alongside convenient marks showing the mission waypoints.

Well but is not the same. We can't locate a point with cords with the kneeboard. Also a GPS/Glonas reduce the work of the missions editors makers, you can Make more dynamic missions just giving a cord for the players.

for God sake why isn't there any navigation devices like gps? in 2015 pilots find their way and location with just these gauges?

I guess the su25 in FC3 is meant to be the first model introduced in 1981.. and ofc.. the newer ones might have been upgraded with gps, like in your video. Another thing to remember is that the aircrafts in FC3 aren't fully simulated (like the uh-1). I'm sure theres more to it, in the real thing, but in FC3 you get the bare minimum. And yes, it is possible to find your way and location with only gauges (fully implemented ones).

can you find targets when you are fully unaware about where the targets are?

If a pilot is fully unaware of where the targets are.. said pilot doesn't fly

Real pilots undergo extensive briefing regarding their flight, targets, target area, weather, and so on whereas in DCS you usually get "X target near Y waypoint or grid" - with the occasional vague description of what targets to expect. Also i'm assuming they get some sort of AFAC support as well. So they aren't completely unaware about where the targets are. They just don't go flying blindly towards their target area..

Well but is not the same. We can't locate a point with cords with the kneeboard.

You can locate a point with just the basic navigation tools you can find in any aircraft.

You can locate a point with just the basic navigation tools you can find in any aircraft.

Honestly I know how to use the HSI and radials. Anyway the technology is there. Why not use it? This keep named simulation anyway!!

Don't get me wrong, i love flying the su25.. even if its "just" a FC3 aircraft with a.. crude navigation system its still fun to fly. But i don't think it will get a gps unit anytime soon.. even though i like the idea of having one as a module. But i think (personal opinion) the issue is not with the actual navigation of the su25.. its the lack of love the mission creators give to the su25. I rarely find missions, specially online ones, in which the su25 can do its work as it was meant to. That said, the player cooperation is a big factor as well.. going alone in a su25 isn't that fun or easy.. but having proper team mates to coordinate with sure does makes it more fun. So it works.. even without any "fancy" navigation system upgrades, but again, i fully support the idea of a gpu module or something similar if its to be done.

Cheers,

DJK

Well you have right about the poor missions made for the Su-25. But this is not the only real problem. Where is the infantry to support???? Our soldiers are a group of handicaps boys

I'm really hoping that once CA gets some more love from ED.. thats going to change. I personally played some well structured missions with human controlled ground units and proper aircraft groups and whatnot.. and it was a lot of fun, but then again, if you're not part of a squadron or have a group of friends to play with, thats not going to happen too often in public servers. And on top of that, you have the single player missions.. which i'm not going to expand on, because i personally don't do much of them..

Don't get me wrong, i love flying the su25.. even if its "just" a FC3 aircraft with a.. crude navigation system its still fun to fly. But i don't think it will get a gps unit anytime soon.. even though i like the idea of having one as a module. But i think (personal opinion) the issue is not with the actual navigation of the su25.. its the lack of love the mission creators give to the su25. I rarely find missions, specially online ones, in which the su25 can do its work as it was meant to. That said, the player cooperation is a big factor as well.. going alone in a su25 isn't that fun or easy.. but having proper team mates to coordinate with sure does makes it more fun. So it works.. even without any "fancy" navigation system upgrades, but again, i fully support the idea of a gpu module or something similar if its to be done.

 

Cheers,

DJK

This is very true. A lot of the missions on the servers are meant for aircraft of certain capabilities. The SU-25A is usually not the best suited for these. While it's possible to get in and out, but you'll be looking to do 1 or 2 passes at the target and getting out before you run out of countermeasures.

Also keep in mind some mission briefings just aren't detailed enough to tell you about the expected threats.

Like most people said the role of the aircraft is close air support, so you typically know exactly where the opposition is and in communication with a ground commander coordinating an air strike with the proper support pieces.

If you go in solo then try to fly just outside of the target area to identify any tracer fire (or missile trails) coming from the ground up. Weave in and out of the target area to try and draw fire (works best with a wingman of course), find your target, take it out, get it out and rearm.

Also, try not to load ordinance that is too close to your max load, this will increase your maneuverability and also increase your flight range.

I do wish we'll some day get a PFM SU-25A. :music_whistling:

I get all about navigation except the HUD navigation ring movements in any Russian aircraft, I just don't get why that ring moves around as it does. I love flying Su-25 just like A-10A as there is something very basic combat "in them".

Edit: To me when starting to fly at all the most useful navigation help was the the direction of the waypoint trough HSI and distance to it trough Steerpoint Range indicator. With those alone I could navigate easily anywhere:

If you want hardcore experience, buy the TC-1 map, fold it, and fly VFR practice using only that map. In P-51D I can navigate fine with it too. The other tricks is to printscreen the map in mission planner and transfer that to ipad or tablet. Then you have approximate waypoints and references to correlate current position.

I do wish we'll some day get a PFM SU-25A

I'm not sure there would be a world of difference - the Su-25 & Su-25T were the first planes in the DCS suite to get AFM (with FC_1) & AFM isn't that far from PFM, they haven't has SFM for years...

What is a TC-1 Map and Where can I get one ?

If you want hardcore experience, buy the TC-1 map, fold it, and fly VFR practice using only that map.

Pardon my "ignance" but can you please explain to me What a "TC-1" Map is ?

And ... Where can I find/purchase one ?

Thanks in Advance.

check user files or run search for a thread by JimMack (RIP)

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Thank You

I think I have found it at http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/110082/?sphrase_id=3461818

cheers

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