Anyone has p51 online dogfight vs Dora?

I saw a whole bunch of Dora shooting down stang videos, but not the other way around. Just wonder how these 2 planes are matched against each other in real player's hands.

Its really is a pretty good match with each having its advantages but not outclassing the other even when they do. On the DoW server the P51 seems to have a slight advantage in numbers but that isn't a problem. Problem is that spotting in notoriously hard and people are having trouble getting into dogfights.

Its really is a pretty good match with each having its advantages but not outclassing the other even when they do. On the DoW server the P51 seems to have a slight advantage in numbers but that isn't a problem. Problem is that spotting in nottheoriously hard and people are having trouble getting into dogfights.

Unfortunately, the poor spotting/ visibility range trends to favor the energy fighter over the angle fighter, and at the altitudes most online missions tend to dictate (because of close defense of our attacking ground targets, as well as short flight distances), the Dora does have some situational advantages.

Dora has most of the significant advantages which isn't surprising as the Mustang isn't operating using the fuel that it actually used when the Dora with MW50 was operating. A lot of it comes down to the pilot of course but remove that variable and the Dora, for me, does better in the main attributes that late war fighters looked to use to fight. Haven't had a dogfight at 30k yet but with the fights online lower down and if your life really depended on the outcome you'd be mad not to select the Dora in my opinion.

Dora has most of the significant advantages which isn't surprising as the Mustang isn't operating using the fuel that it actually used when the Dora with MW50 was operating. A lot of it comes down to the pilot of course but remove that variable and the Dora, for me, does better in the main attributes that late war fighters looked to use to fight. Haven't had a dogfight at 30k yet but with the fights online lower down and if your life really depended on the outcome you'd be mad not to select the Dora in my opinion.

The interesting thing to factor in is that most pilots have much more familiarity with the Mustang at this point and it's turning advantage is no minor detail. With a decent pilot, the P-51D is a suitable match as most online dogfights tend to devolve to low turning fights, from my experience.

The turn advantage is definitely not a minor detail but personally I'd gladly trade up turning ability for an advantage in acceleration, climb, top speed, duration of max engine output & roll rate. Gives you options to control the fight and decide if you want to be offensive or defensive - even if you get bounced by more than one EA. If you're a turn fighter and get bounced by more than one EA you're in deep trouble - they'll just take it turns to bleed your energy off until you're flopping around and then you're dead. If somebody told me my life depended on the next online fight I wouldn't hesitate in selecting the Dora.

I've haven't seen the Mustang pilots having any trouble with the Dora unless they lack experience. The 2 most important factors in match ups so far are who spots the other first and who has a altitude advantage. I wouldn't consider the Mustang a turn fighter to start with even through if handled correctly it should turn with or out turn a Dora. Spits or Zeros were great turn fighters but the Mustang can handle its own. Almost a bigger problem for Mustangs pilots is almost total lack of any teamwork. You get jumped by 2 or 3 Dora pilots and the outcome is pretty much decided unless your DavidRed. American success in almost every theater was dictated by tactics and numbers.

''''

If somebody told me my life depended on the next online fight I wouldn't hesitate in selecting the Dora.

I will agree with that, just don't expect me to shoot down a human P-51 opponent. For me the 190D-9 is good for extending and climbing above opponents, but not much else. No wonder the P-51 pilots are always on the offensive in multiplayer. :music_whistling:

:lol:

I have killed a few Doras. They are good, but beatable. I can't make video though as my replays never "start". They just sit at 12am and do nothing. Replays for Single-player work normally. Mulitplayer is broken for me though. Any thoughs?

yes...on dogs of war serve.

Problem is that spotting in notoriously hard and people are having trouble getting into dogfights.

Haha yep, that about sums me up.

Been on a couple of combat servers the past few nights and all I've found are pretty much empty skies. Plenty of pilots in the air, just can't find any of em to shhot. LOL

:joystick::pilotfly::thumbup:

Unfortunately, the poor spotting/ visibility range trends to favor the energy fighter over the angle fighter, and at the altitudes most online missions tend to dictate (because of close defense of our attacking ground targets, as well as short flight distances), the Dora does have some situational advantages.

I agree. I didnt try to dogfight in multiplayer but single player experience in Dora vs. Mustang was very dissapointing. AI Mustang often seems to be bound with a rope to my 6. And when I manage to outclimb him or anything else, he dissapears from my sight for a second and seems to put invisible cloak on him. I cannot imagine how players could find each other in multiplayer. Except using labels, which are not very popular.

I find this a little bit annoying in DCS. Never really had this problem in Cliffs of Dover.

The turn advantage is definitely not a minor detail but personally I'd gladly trade up turning ability for an advantage in acceleration, climb, top speed, duration of max engine output & roll rate. Gives you options to control the fight and decide if you want to be offensive or defensive - even if you get bounced by more than one EA. If you're a turn fighter and get bounced by more than one EA you're in deep trouble - they'll just take it turns to bleed your energy off until you're flopping around and then you're dead. If somebody told me my life depended on the next online fight I wouldn't hesitate in selecting the Dora.

Yes, you are right about that. Luckily, for the turn fighters out there, the majority of people flying are not flying in groups yet. It takes some serious discipline to hold true to the BnZ but it's obvious why it became the preferred tactic. I was a little concerned about this match-up, but I think the Mustang will hold up ok. If only people would free up P-51 spots on my server so I could actually fly her again. :music_whistling: There better not be any scratches on my precious J-Devil or I will be so mad.

I agree. I didnt try to dogfight in multiplayer but single player experience in Dora vs. Mustang was very dissapointing. AI Mustang often seems to be bound with a rope to my 6. And when I manage to outclimb him or anything else, he dissapears from my sight for a second and seems to put invisible cloak on him. I cannot imagine how players could find each other in multiplayer. Except using labels, which are not very popular.

I find this a little bit annoying in DCS. Never really had this problem in Cliffs of Dover.

It is definitely a "challenge" in DCS and much different than most prior sims. The good news is that it will improve some as you log more hours. I promise you will look back at the use of labels and laugh. It does help if the servers are populated properly, hopefully that will improve as well.

I am most interested in seeing some MP p51vsD9 videos. Especially from experienced pilots like Solty. (I was a big fan of his WT videos). I am also interested in the stats of online plays such as kill ratios for each side. Statistically speaking, if you sample enough encounters and ratio is in the vicinity of 50-50, then I would say the 2 planes are pretty evenly matched.

It is definitely a "challenge" in DCS and much different than most prior sims. The good news is that it will improve some as you log more hours. I promise you will look back at the use of labels and laugh. It does help if the servers are populated properly, hopefully that will improve as well.

I have never used labels. I play DCS for more than a year. I am also not new to WW2 dogfighting. I know how to fly a know where to look. Still I hate DCS's amazingly bad unit visibility. Realism and simulation is nice, but sitting next to monitor with some resolution and limited field of view makes the difference to a real life.

Still I hate DCS's amazingly bad unit visibility.

+1

There's obviously a trick to this that I'm missing cos all I seem to do is take off and spend the entire MP mission looking for people and not doing very well at all.

If you could score points for taking no damage, putting lots of miles on the airframe and landing safely at the end of every round, I'd win hands down!

After an hour or so of what seems like aimless searching, as if by magic an enemy suddenly appears from out of nowhere glues himself 5 feet off my tail and puts me down in a single burst before I know what happened.

I don't like to use the crutch known as labels but I fear that's where I'm going to end up. I really can't see a soul when I'm flying about during combat. I've mistaken specs of dust on the screen as the enemy before now. I jest not.

So what's the deal with labels? Are they set forcefully by the server you connect to or can I just enable them and if so, how?

There's no way I can spot fast moving pixels, often against the dark backdrop of the ground. Some people must have super awesome eyesight or a massive magnifier planted in front of their monitors to dogfight against what appears on my screen as full stops.

I just hope that Edge gives us a decent visual edge when it's released. :megalol::pilotfly:

I have never used labels. I play DCS for more than a year. I am also not new to WW2 dogfighting. I know how to fly a know where to look. Still I hate DCS's amazingly bad unit visibility. Realism and simulation is nice, but sitting next to monitor with some resolution and limited field of view makes the difference to a real life.

Have you flown the DCS Mustang for over a year? And you have seen no improvement spotting? I agreed with you that it is not ideal, but it is not as bad as many make it out to be. Seems like some people need to see an aircraft immediately... that is contrary to the reality of the situation.

Being "not new" to WW2 dogfighting unfortunately does not have much bearing on spotting an enemy aircraft in DCS.

+1 Many reports out there stating that IDing an enemy was even harder, at times waiting till they were right up on the aircraft before being able to get a positive ID.

 

"My P-38 leaped ahead as though kicked by a mule. The cutoff angle was good and I could see I would be coming in behind the bogeys in short order. I still didn’t have a positive ID, but every instinct told me they had to be German. Instinct is no good when you’re coming up behind a target with a 20mm and four .50 caliber guns armed and ready to shoot.

 

It is particularly no good when your adrenaline is pumping. Patience, patience. I wanted those shadowy shapes to be Focke-Wulf 190s! My instincts told me they were Jerries, not a couple of Jugs out of 9th Air Force. Please, bogeys, please turn just a little. Give me an aspect where I can get a positive ID on you.

 

I’m closing fast. There isn’t much time left. I pressed rudder and slid the pipper onto the trailing aircraft’s left wing. Another second and suddenly I could see the Iron Cross on the side of the lead plane’s fuselage. No time left now. I squeezed the trigger. The wingman’s bird lit up with strikes, spewed heavy smoke, rolled inverted, and hit the ground with a huge explosion."

+1 on the ID part. I remember back in IL2 days, I always end up shooting down some friendlies without label on. Hard to spot/id friendly or foe is not a big problem for MP cuz everyone is in the same situation. Not like in SP, where AI has super eye sight, while human players are limited by their pixels.

Went for a couple flights tonight on DoW:

Did one (first) sortie in Dora and scored 2 kills before I was damaged and had to RTB.

Once the P-51 slots were open I jumped right in. Managed to down one Dora, other than that got shot down every single time I was out there in a Mustang. Once I forgot to (un)load 25% fuel and flipped right over in a low level turn. Like in IL21946 them Doras always fly in pairs.

The night ended for me with a 30000ft chase with a couple of Stangs and Doras. Boy does high combat differ from old IL2. Like walking on eggs.

Good times ahead! :thumbup:

was fun on the DoW Server until some douche was there attacking aircraft on the ground and just switched back to spectators before getting shot...

Getting ID is easy if the angle is right, but it wont be until the fight is on ^^

I personally really like to p51 livery with stripes on the wing, makes it easy to distinguish friend from foe without any real disadvantage.

My 6 year old son watching me fight a 190 in DCS:

"Dad! He can disappear!"

I understand that spotting and especially IDing aircraft in real life is difficult. I think what gets people in DCS is that you can be following a target with your eyes and it will vanish in the ground clutter. You know where it is; you kept your eye on it. As my son said, it just disappeared (and he has better vision than I do!).

Yeah, I'll wait and see if EDGE improves that.;)