Air-to-Air Missile Discussion

If the chaffs are tunned now i don´t know what i´m doing so wrong.

All my ER missing their targets all the time. Always launching at the same level and then using a low to high aspect for my radar tracking the boggey.( starting at 10.000 meters, first shot just with LA shows on HUD, last shot at less than 20 km. away)

Always ER missed the target. My only chance is making my target defensive with ER (¡¡ all four ER to do it ¡¡¡ ) and then finish it with ET at very low range.

Is the bandit notching you?

Why use ET at very low range? R-73 is better for this.

Yes i think so, and also going down very fast, i think the IA scaped one missile flying over the sea at only 10 meters over the surface.

But my question is, notching and chaffing is so effective, at so short range? My two first shots where at 75 and 50 km away, but the last shots where at 35 and 20 km away only. Well inside NEZ.

Before 1.2.4 i think ( i´m not sure ) i was able to score a ratio of 1/2 hits with my ER, more or less, now it´s 0 always. I´ve never achieved a hit with ER against F-15C or F-16C IA sice 1.2.4.

I use in this mission ET because the F-15C was flying away from me, not head on. If the aspect is different i will use R-73 ( with very low range i´m talking about 10 km.)

Notching and chaffing (as in doing both together) is very effective at almost any range, but it can become more difficult to execute a notch at closer ranges since it requires faster response, and usually at close ranges the notch may either tighten or in some cases (extremely close ranges, but at that point you may as well use a heater) even be eliminated.

Mind you, depending on the missile, it might be able to deal with it in some ways, but even then perfect notch would lose the missile.

If your AI's are 'excellent', they have very good control for going into the notch. Lower their skill.

Note: The adjustment of chaff affects the probability that a missile will go for chaff when it is not being notched.

Also, one thing you can try to do is dive to a lower altitude than your target after you fire - then he cannot notch you.

I will try again lowering the IA skills. I know against humans it could be very different but the missiles behaviour are so different now that i want to know if this is more or less the final missiles tunning i can expect. ( of course it could have more tunning in new updates).

If this is how missiles react now it´s time to learn new maneouvers and tactics and reset my knowledge.

And one thing, i always dive below my target after firing, giving my radar the best aspect low-high i can reach.

The missiles are done for the moment, in terms of countermeasure rejection. There will definitely be more changes in the future IMHO, hopefully a complete revamp of how countermeasures are handled will be part of this.

Thanks for your kind replies, i will try lowering the IA skills and trying to stay even lower after fire. Also i want to see if the missiles are chasing chaffs or maybe they aren´t able to reach the target because they defensive manouvers.

Ok. Also I don't know if you watch the missile behavior, but if you examine them in tacview, you can see if they are eating chaff or if they are just losing lock - this is an important thing to know.

If there is too much chaff-eating, we need to know. But, keep in mind also that chaff effectiveness increases if the target puts the offending radar on the beam.

Yes, tacview is very useful to tell this things.

But my impression is that missiles now are somehow a little bit degraded, not only ER, now i´m able to spoof 120´s also, by notching and beaming, when before this was suicidal.

The important thing for me is to know if this is more accurate than before, to live with it and to learn how i may combat now.

if you are kind enough to watch this tacview file XDD

I think the first three missiles were spoofed eating chaffs ( the third even only a couple of seconds before firing it )

And only the last one scored a hit at very close range.

IA in average

Tacview-20130802-202838.txt.rar

Is this with the latest update?

I think missile should be a priority, this will put off a lot of people for a long time.

Yes i have updated my DCSW instalation 2 hours ago.

I will take another look ... however I suspect for now, this is how they will remain.

All I can say to questions relating to this for now is 'no comment' :)

Thanks again GG, i will remain tunned ¡¡

GG I really think the missiles still eat too much chaff. I will conduct more of my tests with the latest update after the weekend to get a more objective assessment but 'one-off' testing so far would indicate so.

I will be looking at it some more too. While I prefer a different solution, I'd rather not leave things be.

i have been flying sims since janes F15 and this coment is crap so is this thread

flying something doesn't make you automatically know something, i've flown this sim for 8yrs and taught noobs like you for over 5yrs

whoever made this comment you didn't teach me nothing

im no noob !!!!!!!!!!

You didn't learn how to communicate though, so I don't know what it is you're on about. You're certainly wrong about the technical details and frankly, I don't care how long you've been simming since that doesn't help me with anything.

flying something doesn't make you automatically know something, i've flown this sim for 8yrs and taught noobs like you for over 5yrs

that was the comment left on this post and loss of rep

'but as we all know'

To be frank you don't seem to know much regarding the sim.

An R-27ET won't give you a warning because it is an infrared seeker the same as an R-73 and AIM-9. This is what is hitting you without warning, it states this in the manual.

 

The only missiles that won't track below 20metres are R-27ER and R-27R.

Next is the AIM-7 which goes slightly lower, then the AIM-120B which tracks down to a couple of metres off the ground.

Finally the AIM-120C, R-27ET, R-27T, R-73, AIM-9L, AIM-9P all track all the way down to 1 metre above ground.

ok what ever

i have flown

LockOn

Flaming Cliffs 1/2&3

same issues same argument and apparently you dont know cause no US missile would hit nothing under 5 meter would go plunk right in the dirt.

like i said ( im not going to argue a mute point that has been going on since the original lockon.

ps (its like talking to a wall))

the rus missile would hit that low he was wrong and i was flying lockon when it was carrying the nickname lockup LOL.

thats all i got to say on this. i wont reply to no more flaming crap about this have fun .

Some are slow learners and some just refuse to learn, these are usually the ones that get shotdown a lot and blame it on some imaginary fault in the game.

Neg rep me for giving advice and you'll get it back ten fold.

Go back to your original poser of not getting a warning from an R-27, do you know the difference between an ER and an ET?

My advice about ER's... they will most likely miss (go for chaff) if fired while target is beyond 25-30Km... 20-25Km and they become more effective as target has much less time to react and get into beam etc... so, don't fire them at long ranges as they will miss (unless target does not go into beam and does not chaff). I have asked ED if they could try lower the RCS of the chaff tad more but I doubt they will do it.

How about a 30 degree crank, does this make chaff more effective than head on?

Literally, yes, practically the change should be small.