Will the Skies over Normandy be populated?!

I really begin to fear, that there will be not enough people playing ww2 birds, to get proper multiplayer gameplay.

While i missed the crowdfunding unfortunately, i buyed every WW2 modul and the Sabre, and i had or rather still have very high hopes for the future of this project.

But..

Every european evening (what is pretty much the rush hour for flight sims) i log into DCS multiplayer, seeing 10-15 players on the most (or should i say only) populated WW2-server. And that maybe for 2 or 3 hours, before and after it's pretty much empty for 21 hours. Credit to the mission builders, that you still find some enemies to dogfight, but this has nothing to do with proper mission play. Day in and day out i am "forced" (still enjoy it of course) to play Battle of Stalingrad or Cliffs of Dover, if i wanna have a proper flight experience, and i wouldn't even mind about the unhistorical map or the modern tanks. Just wanna fly my favourite planes (Mustang, Dora...[P38 one day...]) in a beautiful multiplayer environment. Also hope very much for a populated Sabre against Mig scenario once the Mig and the Korean map are out.

Might this just be the silence before the storm?! I really really hope so. I hope that people are just waiting for more planes to come, DCS 2.0 and of course the Normandy map. But is this the case? I mean, with more people in multiplayer, it could be a lot of fun already (had a few good days, especially after the 109 release, there were a few days with around 30 players online), so i can't see any proper reason, why people are not going online right now?!

I would really appreciate some answers from you guys, everyone who reads this topic. How you are handling this game right now, and in the future, and your opinion, in what direction it will be going. If we will get regularly 50+ players into a WW2 server, if and when you will be one of them.

I think if plenty of people are giving their answers, we will get a pretty good prediction, of how things will be going in terms of multiplayer.

Cheers,

Celestiale

I think *hope* it's a silence before the storm. In the latest Q&A Wags mentioned that the MP implementation will be radically changed: dedicated servers, filter on ping, country. And besides that, getting on board with the current industry MP standards is a must for DCS =)

Lots of ex-Il2 players are waiting for the Normandy map and FPS improvement when firing 6xBrownings. Also the Brits should be more numerous when a Spitfire is released.

DCS seems like the only proper simulator right now, but it lacks the content to attract more players (Esp. WW2). This is about to change radically this year, and hopefully other areas like user-friendlyness will be improved as well.

Extreme modeling of aircraft is a good thing, but doesn't make up for simple lack of content and uniformity in the late-war western front.

Interesting topic for sure...

I'm thinking the people running the servers would love to know these answers as well. :) There are several of us trying our best to keep that flame burning. After hosting the DoW server for about 1 year and 7 months now I am still not very good at predicting the ideal times to find people flying the WWII birds and when the ebb and tide of participation occur. You definitely see more interest after each module is released but nothing incredibly consistent. As was said, there are many who are holding out for a proper WWII environment as well as a more refined MP experience but I do still see a good number of people on the server... just scattered wildly throughout the day.

One interesting thing I've noticed that holds true most times is that numbers attract numbers. If you find yourself on a server with 5 or more others...additional players are bound to join. So if you can, invite friends when you plan to fly to help attract some interest.

I agree with merlin on the threshold... if the server gets 5 or more - it ramps up to double digits pretty quick.

That all depends on EDGE!!!

So far my WWII birds gather dust. I'm finished with DCS world MP and WWII aircraft! Still waiting for EDGE.

By then i pass time with BOS.

Guys please no BoS vs Dcs here. Stay on topic. :-)

The learning curve is very steep for DCS. Despite the fact that DCS has some of the best documentation and tutorials of any flight sim out there, it requires lots of practice and a logical mindset to make progress in the warbirds.

So, my suspicion is that a big chunk of those who purchase the WWII modules do not feel confident enough to venture into multiplayer. And I don't mean those who have no interest in multiplayer. I mean those who would like to play but just don't feel ready yet.

Personally, the spotting issue keeps me away from Merlin's server on most days. I really hope that improves with EDGE. Even then, most of the deaths I see in multiplayer are not caused by player-player combat. It is people crashing on takeoff or landing, or crashing into each other because they don't know to give right-of-way to landing aircraft (or they don't even look). Some even think it is OK to park their aircraft at the end of the runway while they go for a beer or wait for their buddy to start his engine and taxi to the runway:glare: The result is that the runways in multiplayer are usually littered with debris and smoking holes.:music_whistling:

A dogfight in DCS is also incomparably more realistic than in any other ww2 sim I have used. We really have to get near the enemy before starting to shoot.

Glimpsing is great at the ACG server, and that's where I spend my online sessions lately, although this helped me to train my techniques for identifying other aircraft, and I could later start to practice at the DOW servers too.

Both offer great missions, and I am sure many more will become available.

Then DCS offers me better than any other sim a platform where I can fly, just for the fun of flying these great ww2 birds, but also my UH-1H, F86, and the soon to be released Mig-15 :-)

With the advent of EDGE I am almost sure DCS will see an even bigger user community :-)

So, my suspicion is that a big chunk of those who purchase the WWII modules do not feel confident enough to venture into multiplayer. And I don't mean those who have no interest in multiplayer. I mean those who would like to play but just don't feel ready yet.

Startet in August / September last year and after learning to TO / land I just jumped in - no risk no fun :D

I keep getting my ass handed over but it´s still fun and the more I play the more I think I´m progressing.

I´m pretty confident that more people will show up as soon as there are additional planes like the Spitfire and when EDGE and Normandy will be released I´m sure there are more than enough players.

With the new server tools I also think that we will see more WW II servers.

So I´m already looking forward :)

Air Combat Group has well over 100 members that fly organized campaigns and missions in Clod. A great number amongst us also fly DCS.

http://www.aircombatgroup.co.uk/

There is also an ACG server for DCS now, but population will off course go up once the rest of the "world" is in place, such as period AI, and a proper map.

Expect a great deal of these guys to be active in DCS ww2.

If you need your multiplayer/organized ww2 flying in a friendly environment flying full real, I advise you to head over there and join at earliest convenience.

Here is a vid of how our missions play out- usually around 80+ people every sunday:

Note; I am not marketing Clod or encouraging 'versus' discussions. I am talking about the virtual ww2 aviation community in general.

DCS Normandy WILL be populated;)

The learning curve is very steep for DCS. Despite the fact that DCS has some of the best documentation and tutorials of any flight sim out there, it requires lots of practice and a logical mindset to make progress in the warbirds.

 

So, my suspicion is that a big chunk of those who purchase the WWII modules do not feel confident enough to venture into multiplayer. And I don't mean those who have no interest in multiplayer. I mean those who would like to play but just don't feel ready yet.

It is very steep. That is part of being realistic. Many folks are kidding themselves if they think they are going to hop into a World War II fighter and be Erich Hartmann or Bud Anderson in a few minutes.

It is just not going to happen.

The biggest issue I have online is framerate drops and lag when I get to low altitudes.

A dogfight in DCS is also incomparably more realistic than in any other ww2 sim I have used. We really have to get near the enemy before starting to shoot.

I agree. The spotting distance seems about right to me and reflects the same feel as spotting other aircraft at work. It makes me constantly watch my six online. It also reflects the "empty sky" syndrome I have heard described by WWII veterans. One second the sky is filled with planes and the next they are all alone in a big empty sky.

In many ways, the more you know about aircraft, the harder it is to suspend belief on a home computer. It is not just college, flying certificates, and hours but just as importantly what I learned working and being on the Board of Directors for a warbird restoration outfit.

That time put me in intimate contact with people, machines, and agencies that are at the forefront of historical knowledge of this time period. I learned so much. Some of those things have shown up in DCS that are not modeled anywhere else because of "pulp" history that gets repeated over and over until it becomes fact.

Some of those items that are in game include:

Tail warning radar - How cool is that! It is not perfect but man turn that on and I can concentrate on scanning offensively instead of watching my own six at the expense of looking ahead.

EZ42 gunsight - Extremely common on the Me-262; learned about it through our cooperation with Stormbirds. The sight was also used on FW-190's and Bf-109's.

I played IL2 when invited by the museum members. It was fun as a way to socialize with them. It was not that immersive from a flying standpoint for me.

I liked IL2 CloD because it began to "put me in the cockpit" and was more immersive because of the procedures. From a "this is the physics of airplanes" standpoint it was not immersive and failed to hold my attention.

DCS puts it all together by teaming with the Fighter Collection and a dev team that really is on top of their game.

This is shaping up to be IMHO, the Rolls Royce of the genre and one with longevity. One necessary step is an immersive environment for the World War II aircraft. Rome was not built in a day so it will take time but the ingredients are all there.

I'm just waiting for the Spitfire! And I really hope in normandy map. Maybe an old ''not to big'' bomber like dauntless and stuka could help. (or B17/24/29 and henkel 111, its good to dream...).

I really hope the best for this old, glamourous era of propeller aircraft.

40's pilot drink alcool, smoke big cigar, wear mustach and piss on the seat every day!:huh:

It is very steep. That is part of being realistic. Many folks are kidding themselves if they think they are going to hop into a World War II fighter and be Erich Hartmann or Bud Anderson in a few minutes.

 

It is just not going to happen.

 

The biggest issue I have online is framerate drops and lag when I get to low altitudes.

 

 

 

I agree. The spotting distance seems about right to me and reflects the same feel as spotting other aircraft at work. It makes me constantly watch my six online. It also reflects the "empty sky" syndrome I have heard described by WWII veterans. One second the sky is filled with planes and the next they are all alone in a big empty sky.

 

In many ways, the more you know about aircraft, the harder it is to suspend belief on a home computer. It is not just college, flying certificates, and hours but just as importantly what I learned working and being on the Board of Directors for a warbird restoration outfit.

 

That time put me in intimate contact with people, machines, and agencies that are at the forefront of historical knowledge of this time period. I learned so much. Some of those things have shown up in DCS that are not modeled anywhere else because of "pulp" history that gets repeated over and over until it becomes fact.

 

Some of those items that are in game include:

 

Tail warning radar - How cool is that! It is not perfect but man turn that on and I can concentrate on scanning offensively instead of watching my own six at the expense of looking ahead.

 

EZ42 gunsight - Extremely common on the Me-262; learned about it through our cooperation with Stormbirds. The sight was also used on FW-190's and Bf-109's.

 

I played IL2 when invited by the museum members. It was fun as a way to socialize with them. It was not that immersive from a flying standpoint for me.

 

I liked IL2 CloD because it began to "put me in the cockpit" and was more immersive because of the procedures. From a "this is the physics of airplanes" standpoint it was not immersive and failed to hold my attention.

 

DCS puts it all together by teaming with the Fighter Collection and a dev team that really is on top of their game.

This is shaping up to be IMHO, the Rolls Royce of the genre and one with longevity. One necessary step is an immersive environment for the World War II aircraft. Rome was not built in a day so it will take time but the ingredients are all there.

Spotting issue has been already confirmed and addressed by mods. So surely it ist what is suppose to be.

I don't think that DCS is in any way more demanding then orher sims. If you start first time you need to learn a lot anyway.

I agree with Sithspawn that lack of proper map and setting may be the reason for such low numbers on the servers

Spotting issue has been already confirmed and addressed by mods. So surely it ist what is suppose to be.

That does not change my statement, Solty. I flew online yesterday. The spotting has the same feel for me as spotting other traffic at work.

Airplanes are not some solid dot you see from the otherside of the map like every game I have tried out. It is surprisingly difficult to see other aircraft in the sky from a distance.

You have to train yourself NOT to look for an airplane shape but concentrate on picking up movement and "pie the sky" in small segments. Then your eye will see the airplane.

An aircraft at a distance of 7 miles which appears in sharp focus within the foveal center of vision would have to be as close as 7/10 of a mile in order to be recognized if it were outside of foveal vision

Because the eyes can focus only on this narrow viewing area, effective scanning is accomplished with a series of short, regularly spaced eye movements that bring successive areas of the sky into the central visual field

Each movement should not exceed 10°, and each area should be observed for at least 1 second to enable detection

Pilots should realize that their eyes may require several seconds to refocus when switching views between items in the cockpit and distant objects. The eyes will also tire more quickly when forced to adjust to distances immediately after close-up focus, as required for scanning the instrument panel. Eye fatigue can be reduced by looking from the instrument panel to the left wing past the wing tip to the center of the first scan quadrant when beginning the exterior scan. After having scanned from left to right, allow the eyes to return to the cabin along the right wing from its tip inward. Once back inside, one should automatically com- mence the panel scan

http://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/operations/visual-scanning-and-collision-avoidance.html

Scanning for other aircraft is a learned skill that takes practice. It does not come naturally and if you do what is natural, you will not spot other aircraft as effectively.

Spotting IRL is way way easier then in any flight sim, even BoS. Around our airfield, on beautiful days there is sometimes a lot of traffic.

And it's no problem to see even a Gyrocopter [which is even smaller then a microlight] from 4,5 klicks out, at least for me and i am definitely not superhuman when it comes to eyes (wearing contact lenses). As soon as they (planes) go over the horizon from your point of view, they are even easier to see (if it's not in the direction of the sun)

Spotting IRL is way way easier then in any flight sim, even BoS. Around our airfield, on beautiful days there is sometimes a lot of traffic.

 

And it's no problem to see even a Gyrocopter [which is even smaller then a microlight] from 4,5 klicks out, at least for me and i am definitely not superhuman when it comes to eyes (wearing contact lenses). As soon as they (planes) go over the horizon from your point of view, they are even easier to see (if it's not in the direction of the sun)

+1

We can see planes flying 10000m above sea level. Yeah the big ones i know and if they are highlighted by the sun against a blue/dark background.

I'm not saying we should see enemy planes at 10000m apart but at 500m you shouldn't need zoom to tell what plane it is.

In an airshow i was actually tracking planes as they come in for the show and then leave. And i would track them and see how far i could spot them.

i could spot them even when they were 5km away. Maybe you can't spot them when you are moving as well with 300km/h in a cockpit with loud sound (sometimes when i drive and i'm lost i turn down the volume of music :megalol: ) but you can't miss them at 2km.

I agree. The spotting distance seems about right to me and reflects the same feel as spotting other aircraft at work. It makes me constantly watch my six online. It also reflects the "empty sky" syndrome I have heard described by WWII veterans. One second the sky is filled with planes and the next they are all alone in a big empty sky.

It is disingenuous to make theses statements without disclosing what you are running with.

"Fine for me" is just an empty statement without qualifying remarks and it doesn't take much effort to include those remarks.

Just say - Fine for me (1x1080P,27",TIR) [Number of monitors, Res of monitors, Size of monitors and TIR(true/false)]

It makes a difference to include this useful shorthand. People can see under what conditions you think it is FINE and they know you aren't someone who uses a 55" TV as a monitor so that his old eyes can actually see the damned little dots while telling everyone else to "harden up".

It takes no extra effort at all to include your setup EACH time you make the "fine for me" remark and it gives your remark some credibility which it totally lacks otherwise. It takes no effort and improves the quality of the conversation.

I find spotting pretty hard on a 24" @ 1920x1080

Turning off the AA helps but it´s still pretty hard for me - hope it will be better with the new engine.

Guys, spotting has been discussed in other threads, lets not get off the rails.

To be fair the OP asked why not many people are playing the ww2 birds online.

It's a fair point to not play online because you can only spot planes with labels on.

I've not tried going online because of this, but perhaps there should be some servers with labels on for 'noobs' like me who find it hard to spot, but don't want to play the game mode that I hear is not nice and want to play against humans.

Just speaking for myself, I'll likely play online more when we have proper period maps and the aircraft, ground units, naval units are fleshed out. I like messing around in the Mustang but I really need to feel immersed in the era to get inspired to play real missions.