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Old 04-22-2008, 05:28 PM   #11
Bwaze
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I found this description of Suncom sticks very useful (from X-Plane forum, post by GranBichus) :


Quote:
-SFS and F-15E Raptor have 2-axis, 4-buttons and 1-hat. (coolie only) In these two stick models the hat is emulated thru a non-convetional button mask, its seen as multiple button presses at once, not recognized by most modern games, they are the entry level joysticks from Suncom, not worth buying unless you plan on gutting them out to do something with them or you have an SFS throttle to convert the HAT into keystrokes.

-F-15E Hawk is a 2-axis, 4-buttons and 2-hat stick. (castle anc coolie) One model above the previous, hats are emulated the same way, thru combined button presses so the are not recognized by most modern games. This is the perfect candidate for USB modding. If you have the SFS throttle, this joystick is the closest thing to the Talon/Eagle because the SFS throttle will give you the keyboard emulation.

-F-15E Talon is a 2-axis, 4-buttons and 2-hat stick. (castel and coolie) However, the difference between this one and the Hawk is that this stick's coolie and castle swtiches (the two hats) are strictly keyboard emulators. the main 4 buttons can be toggled as keyboard emulation buttons or regular joystick buttons. Keystrokes are programmed thru the joystick itself, no drivers needed. This stick can store up to 4 different profiles for each one of the buttons hats. (total of 48 SINGLE keystrokes can be programmed into this stick, no macros or chorded keys)

-F-15E Eagle was their top of the line before TM sued them over it. (AFAIK) The Eagle is a 2-axis, 4-button and 2-hat stick that offers the same 2 hats as keyboard emulators and the 4 main buttons toggable as regular buttons or keyboard emulator as well, the main difference between this stick and the Talon is that the Eagle stick has a pass-thru for headphones and each button can store up to 8 different keystrokes, including chorded keystrokes (like CTRL - X, ALT - B... ) and each one of the 4 main buttons has a 3 speed toggable auto-repeat (auto-fire) This stick requires an old computer to be reprogrammed, and it needs the DOS application that reprograms the keyboard emulator.
I would just add that the first mentioned stick, Suncom SFS is the stick that was sold together with throttle in "Combo Crate". SFS and Raptor sticks both have just the coolie hat (in the middle), on the left is the big red LED light instad of a button. Other sticks have castle 4-way switch in center and coolie hat on the right side.




Suncom Combo Crate (SFS throttle + SFS Stick)





Suncom F-15E Hawk, but the top button position is the same for Hawk / Talon / Eagle sticks.


I have a Suncom throttle (got it for free from a friend several years ago, potentiometers are gone, used it for decoration). I'm trying to get a hold on any Suncom stick (except SFS that came in combo crate with the throttle and Raptor, they only have 1 4-way hat). They appear quite regularly on Ebay, but unfortunately mostly in USA, and I'm in Europe. Just a week ago I let pass a Talon on sale in England, it went for about $36 + $40 postage, waaay too much for an old stick ($76, 47 EUR). But maybe I'll regret it.

I'm planning to make a USB conversion, with Leo Bodnar's controller card:
http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836/

And almost certainly Honeywell SS496A Hall sensors + magnets, and perhaps a rotary encoder and extra button or two. None of these things is expensive, but it's a lot of work. I just recently made my first trim box, and got hooked on solder smell. I just hope I won't end making full F-15 pit.


So, I'm in a opposite position than most people looking for throttle. I have a Suncom throttle unit and no stick. So, does anyone have an old, possibly even damaged Suncom Hawk / Talon / Eagle stick that is willing to part? Ideally would be from Europe, shipping rates can be quite a killer. I'll keep looking for a stick, and if I give up, I'll let you know, and this throttle (completely without scratches) will be searching for a new home.

Last edited by Bwaze; 04-22-2008 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Added pictures...
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:59 PM   #12
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good info there Bwaze, didn't know there were so many models.
i have a stick with your name on it if we can get it to you cheaply.

love the idea of modding with leo's pcb,
i want to do the same with one of the throttles.

the throttles are desirable and the sticks are a dime a dozen.
i will post what i have and if freight is within your budget the you can have the pick of the litter so to speak.
pretty sure i have at least a talon or two, plus some of those red light versions.

Goya, i agree, the feel and build quality of the buttons etc on the sfs gear was less than impressive, i was dissapointed by this fact.
ch-guts in sfs shell would be sweet indeed, so agreed back at ya.

Vekkinho: i believe they are all gameport the models i have, some with ps2 and maybe some with at keyboard plugs but easily converted to ps2 via adaptor.

now this is a combo crate:


2 talons and 2 combo creates





Last edited by G3; 04-23-2008 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:32 PM   #13
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Thanks, ggg87, I really hope this will work.

Hehe, what a nice set, you could shelve them for a couple of years, and if the joystick industry will evolve in the same direction, people will be paying big bucks for the converted ones!


Yeah, button feel cannot be compared to CH or expensive Thrustmaster models, they are a bit more flimsy. But in my opinion they are better than Saitek's - I have an X-52 Pro, and I was rather disappointed when I got it. I mean, it's just like my old Cyborg Evo, only more buttons and more axis - buttons have a lot of play, and the whole thing just screams "toy" under your hands. Must be the non-military shape of things that I grew accustomed to using Thrustmaster F-22 Pro.

As for the info, it's just copy / paste. Big thanks must go to the people over here:

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=27496 - X-plane topic about Suncom modding

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthread...86#Post2497386 - recent SimHQ topic about converting Suncom throttle to USB

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthread...91#Post2463291 - some info on reworking Suncom joysticks

http://www.f-15estrikeeagle.com/tech...ward_stick.htm - Real F-15E stick description, control functions

http://www.f-15estrikeeagle.com/tech...d_throttle.htm - same for throttle

Sorry for not shortening the links...


I just hope that I'll get my stick before everybody hops on a Suncom modding bandwagon!
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:42 PM   #14
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Awesome collection ggg !
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwaze View Post
http://www.f-15estrikeeagle.com/tech...ward_stick.htm - Real F-15E stick description, control functions

7 - Weapon Release Button: When pressed momentarily, this button lets loose whatever weapon is set for release (drop A/G ordnance, launch A/A missile, etc. Pressing this button when not in weapon release mode enables programmed recording with VTRS (on-board video recorder).


LOL better be in the right mode if you press that button...
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Old 05-07-2008, 01:37 PM   #16
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Is there a difference between a "Crated SFS Throttle" and a SFS Throttle? The pics I have seen of the front where the wires go in looks different.

I did get myself Leo's BU0836 board for x-mas, but have 2 Talons, and it's been too hard to talk my wife into getting a Throttle at e-bay prices when they do show up.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuki View Post
Throttle won't be programmable in XP, you will only have DX functions.
CLICK HERE For SUNCOM, you probably won't find a new one .. unless someone bought one new and never opened it. Suncom went out of business a long time ago.

As I mentioned in another post, I have found a supplyer that has a batch of brand spanking "new" SunCom Sticks and spareparts..


Send a mail to these guys:
http://www.computerpartner.no/frame_uk.html
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:37 PM   #18
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Just a fix of my previous message:

Quote:
-F-15E Hawk is a 2-axis, 4-buttons and 2-hat stick. (castle and coolie) One model above the previous, hats are emulated the same way, thru combined button presses so the are not recognized by most modern games. This is the perfect candidate for USB modding. If you have the SFS throttle, this joystick is the closest thing to the Talon/Eagle because the SFS throttle will give you the keyboard emulation.
That is not true. Why? Hawk only has 4 normal buttons, and 2 hats are just decorations - they don't move and they have no buttons underneath them. How do I know that? I just bought one, in very good condition. I first thought they were broken and just glued on joystick, but then I looked on the box (yeah, it came in original box and with manual), and it says: "For appearances only, castle and hat switches are inactive."

So it's definitely not a good candidate for USB modding...
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:12 PM   #19
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If you're converting it to USB theres nothing stopping you from putting 2 hats there yourself.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:32 PM   #20
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Well, that's most likely waaay over my capabilities. If I could find a 4 way switch, I could fit the hats on top of that, but making completely new mechanism for pressing 4 micro switches is a bit too complicated.

Hehe, I now have one SFS (with a functional coolie hat) and a Hawk (with decorative non functioning hats).


I'll check if any of my old ruined joysticks has anything usable, but I doubt it.
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