LABS reference

I'm currently experimenting with LABS system but I am confused as to what all the A-4 sight and the bombing panel on its left with its 3 patterns mean. I also noticed that on ADI, if you pull really high up during flight there is a bullseye point, is that the designated target?

Procedure wise I am also confused, when selecting LABS and uncaging it, do I use electrical or mechanical caging switch and do I need to press designate on stick (Enter) when I'm holding the caging or how do I go about this?

In a no weather mission, I expect a dead on delivery with the right parameters which I don't know. Help.. Please?

I'm currently experimenting with LABS system but I am confused as to what all the A-4 sight and the bombing panel on its left with its 3 patterns mean. I also noticed that on ADI, if you pull really high up during flight there is a bullseye point, is that the designated target?

 

Procedure wise I am also confused, when selecting LABS and uncaging it, do I use electrical or mechanical caging switch and do I need to press designate on stick (Enter) when I'm holding the caging or how do I go about this?

 

In a no weather mission, I expect a dead on delivery with the right parameters which I don't know. Help.. Please?

The A4 sight and manual bomb system aren't used in LABS, so I think you need to be more specific in what you want to do, (three completely separate delivery systems).

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I'm currently experimenting with LABS system but I am confused as to what all the A-4 sight and the bombing panel on its left with its 3 patterns mean. I also noticed that on ADI, if you pull really high up during flight there is a bullseye point, is that the designated target?

 

Procedure wise I am also confused, when selecting LABS and uncaging it, do I use electrical or mechanical caging switch and do I need to press designate on stick (Enter) when I'm holding the caging or how do I go about this?

 

In a no weather mission, I expect a dead on delivery with the right parameters which I don't know. Help.. Please?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2291561&postcount=1

Ok, more clearly then,

What calculations do I need to perform LABS?

Ok, more clearly then,

What calculations do I need to perform LABS?

xxJohnxx explains it a bit in the comments section of his video:

The other two modes also use the LABS but are pretty much completly diffrent.

There, you would go ahead during your briefing, and have a look at the target you where engaging. Then you would draw a circle arround that target, in a distance determind by charts. This circle is the point where you pull up, and might be one or two nm away from the target.

Then you would draw another circle, in the radius away from the first circle, which it takes to fly 30seconds at a given speed (say 400knots). This is the maximum time the timer can run.

Now you would go ahead and look for a significant landmark in the area between the circles. This landmark will become your IP. Then you calculate how long it takes to get from the IP to the inner circle. This time is entered into the LABS before takeoff.

 

Now, once you get towards the targetarea you want to be exactly on the speed you have been basing your calculations on, and you would go ahead and fly a straight line over the IP towards the target area. Once directly over the IP you will hold down your weapon release button, which will set of a timer.

Then, when you get close to the inner circle, the system will show on the LABS indicator that you have to pull up. You fly the manuver it tells you to fly, and at a pitch of about 45° (this depends on the modes, they use diffrent release pitches) the bomb will come off, and you start to brake off and get away from the impact point.

 

This video describes how it is done on the A4 (explaining it much better than I can in text): Nuclear War: "Delivery of Atomic Weapons by Light Carrier Aircraft" 1959 US Navy Training Film

 

My testing showed that the first two modes are available, however, I, due to the lack of available manuals and documentation, haven't been able to find a way how to calculate and programm those timings necessary for the LABS.

Ok, more clearly then,

What calculations do I need to perform LABS?

The previous explanation by XXJohnXX is for a real life 45 deg release, which is not used in the game.

The game LABS uses a 90 deg auto release point.

Use a level, on the deck, full power approach.

Set bombs to single or double release.

Set 3 LABS switches to on. Nothing else is required.

Determine a pull up point, in my case, the airfield boundary.

Pull up and maintain a constant 4g and at the same time press the bomb button to consent release. A sound (tone) will be heard.

Keep the vertical needle upright. When the horizontal needle reaches the cross point, the sound (tone) will stop and the bomb will come off.

If you've done everything right :joystick: the bombs will land some where near the target.

This is the least accurate bombing method as it was designed for nuclear attack. but it's good fun to practice and I spent a lot of time with it, presently using my newly bought Mig 15, for manual toss bombing.

GL.

Ok thanks I now get it.. Back to old and reliable dive bombing then.

Would a weapons delivery planner be a better approach for these calculations? Maybe someone could make a WDP for the F-86 like the one for Falcon4.

Well, in my guide I touched the subject as well.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20586543/DCS%20F-86F%20Sabre%20Guide.pdf

It starts from page 49.

On page 62 you will see I added references. One of them might interest you:

LABS TUTORIAL: “Nuclear War: "Delivery of Atomic Weapons by Light Carrier Aircraft" 1959 US Navy Training Film”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dIqfN_aPtY

Watch this, you will understand why there are little to no informations on "calculated" approaches for the LABS. It's a lot of work, and it is not 100 % reliable (especially since we don't have nukes to toss). The LABS system was not meant to be used as a tool for precision-bombing. Its goal was simply to fly low to avoid radar and AAA sites for as long as possible, toss your nukes and run back home, away from the huge blast radius.

Would a weapons delivery planner be a better approach for these calculations? Maybe someone could make a WDP for the F-86 like the one for Falcon4.

You can do this yourself quite easily, same as the RL approach.

Fly at 500 kts on the deck, pull up at 4g and at 30 deg release the bombs.

Find where they land and measure the distance.

Pick a (large) target and draw a circle at the measured distance around it.

Check for a landmark on that circle for use as your ip.

At the ip pull up at 4g, release at 30 deg and slice away.

The result should look something like this.

The F-86F is equiped for automatic toss bombing with nuclear weapons in the vertical, but I'm using it here to manual lob them at 30 degrees, (the 1st bomb at 30, then the 2nd one at 35 to 40 degs. to see where it lands), at the ammo factory practice site. Normally you would slice away immediately after release, but I'm overflying to watch the impact point.

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I think reproducible approaches could be made using TACVIEW.. hell maybe even produce the darn WDP for F-86!!

Ok, how about reverse LABS then? Like a split S instead of an immelmann?

Also, I don't know what cage or uncage LABS function is. Are there control commands for them in controls? I can only find mechanical A-4 and electric C/UC buttons.

Further, does the LABS use the A-4 -10° bombing reticle or just the INU point underneath your craft at depressing the tit moment?

LABS doesn't use the A4 sight at all.

LABS is a completely separate system.

The tit can be pressed as soon as you start to pull up and hold it till the bomb automatically releases.

All references are made to the LABS dial.

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Well, it is settled then... After 15 hours of trials, I can say with pure confidence that I won't use LABS in this module ever again. I find auto release the best and the most accurate.

It would be uber cool to see some data, and the full implementation of LABS in the future. Nice work figuring it all out so far guys.

Well, the system was not really meant to be used with conventional weapons anyway, so in our sim it's a bit of a peculiar but absolutely useless gimmick.

I'm already proficient enough with it to hit planet Earth on regular basis, smaller targets, however, have been more problematic :D.