Bridge Traffic Problems

thanks for the further posts ENO, I am also behind you in the convoys are brutal debate :P

I also don't really get the we are pushing the map beyond its capability line, we are just adding a convoy... nothing more - so the map was never meant to have vehicles drive down a road?

AI gets jammed up on bridge all the time now.

I do not understand why a convoy of truck that worked all the time before 1.2.8 is now getting jammed up on a bridge now. I can see where maybe once in a while the convoy would get jammed up but now the convoy is getting jammed up going across the inguri river almost every time.

if anyone what's to review it is the separatist aggression mission day one.

thanks

76th Falcon

I also drove ground vehicles under a rail bridge and they stacked up vertically on top of it and got stuck. =/

More AI convoy problems

Im adding that the convoy in this mission will not stay together. You can see in the screen shot. There are two convoys one east and one west. Both will do the same every time.

Im also adding a screen shot that I see from time to time where two vehicles lock together.

There are problems with 1.2.8. Been flying same missions sense 1.2.0 with no problems at all. Well not this bad.

They just pulled over to fish off the bridge and drink a few beers...

heh, that much armor on a concrete bridge like that (box girder?) would be bad news, whether it stopped or kept going... maybe they got scared.

Im adding that the convoy in this mission will not stay together. You can see in the screen shot. There are two convoys one east and one west. Both will do the same every time.

Im also adding a screen shot that I see from time to time where two vehicles lock together.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

For mixed convoys one has to consider not only the maximum speed of all vehicles, but also their accelleration (and decelleration) capabilities. While the speed set for the route is higher than the default speed used by the ME, all vehicles are capable of going that fast. BUT all vehicles slow down in curves and at intersections ... just the tanks accellerate way quicker than the trucks after such obstacles. The trucks then try to close the gap, even by going faster than the set route speed, but on curvy roads this is difficult/impossible.

I experimented with setting the AI skill to "excellent" for the trucks and that seems to help a tiny bit. They drive a tad bit more confident and especially the random maneuvering at the beginning of the route is less pronounced (which helps to not develop a gap right at the beginning). But those ammo and fuel truck drivers seem to like to drive a bit more carefully - compared to those tankers who blaze away as if they were on tracks ..erm ... uhm..

Well, anyhow, the best results I could archieve by changing the speed for the whole route to 10 or 11 (which is coincidentally the ME default speed ... hrm ...). Then the whole convoy stayed together, no matter what.

So setting to 10 helped with the problem? I have had this mission for a very long time (1.2.0) and never had this problem before. 1.2.8 is causing problems.

I hope ED isnt changing the AI behavior and giving us more broken patches.

So setting to 10 helped with the problem? I have had this mission for a very long time (1.2.0) and never had this problem before. 1.2.8 is causing problems.

I hope ED isnt changing the AI behavior and giving us more broken patches.

I can not say what exactly changed (or if at all) in this regard, but yes, setting the speed for all waypoints to 10 made the convoy stay together for me.

Still they will get stuck when crossing under a bridge! Good convoy formation or not!

That is the most important game breaker for me! :(

Still they will get stuck when crossing under a bridge! Good convoy formation or not!

That is the most important game breaker for me! :(

Agreed, hopefully waiting for one of the changelogs to say its fixed, but doesn't seem to be a priority........

Things aren't always as easy to fix as you might think, and the causes aren't always apparent either, but assuming its not a priority is just wrong.

With little to no feedback on what is and isn't being fixed its hard to stay positive. The vehicle AI WP issue is real and a game breaker for many missions. This is very apparent in the lack of new dynamic missions being produced. To say many here are frustrated is an understatement.

Earlier in this thread I stated the bug was reported. That is really the only feedback you can expect until they get it fixed. Its been escalated to a block due to how damaging its been, but as I said... things are always so easy to pinpoint and fix. I understand you are frustrated (I saw the video) but the devs are aware of the issue and I am sure we will see a fix as soon as they can squash it.

Sith,

I do appreciate your feedback and constant interaction on the forums which is refreshing. Thanks for the update, no disrespect, just disappointed. Fingers crossed for a fix to the major hurdles including the WP bug to jump start creative mission making again.

Open Beta 1.2.8.27915 not fixed, yet.

:cry:

Don't want to be a pain in the ass, but this is more important than any new plane, or even a new map! If any mission simply works as a dumb field battle without any roads... I know it's escalated. Any chance for a hotfix?

"Listen with the intent to understand not necessarily to respond." ;)

I should also add that the below is a commentary regarding my efforts to build a mission and while testing an ai component in that mp intended mission.

I think the community in general has been extremely patient with regards to the excruciatingly poor ground AI behavior in DCSW environment overall. I mean- I just spent 4 hours yesterday trying to get 2 AI units 6 large to move from point A to point B, off road for the most part... down a valley. What problems did I encounter?

1) Units open fire while other units are in front of them... destroying them. I don't mean once or twice- entire units are eliminated by this behavior.

2) The path I set in the mission editor was apparently outside of the maneuvering scope of the vehicles so they obstinately just stop in mid course or find some ridiculously long way around.

3) Units going under a bridge got hung up in a similar fashion to the bug reported in this thread (just to stay on topic). Not all vehicles did this- just most.

4) Units get caught trying to pathfind their way around vehicle wreckage and end up turning around in circles while they have no problem overlapping / clipping through each other when they're alive trying to follow formation. This continues until they are killed.

5) The old "out of order" issue where they get mixed up while getting into the original formation and out of position units start warming up their tires by going through a perpetual "going to pass / not going to pass" routine.

6) Lead unit diverts from route for some reason while the rest of the group stays on the route- leading to #5 (reported in another thread)...

I mean, yeah... this bridge thing is really, really annoying and compromises just about any mission involving troops moving from any point on the map to any other point on the map- but each one of these issues is extremely limiting in how ANYONE can build a mission.

7) Just in case, I tried using roads and moving certain troops into position using roads instead. This was so severely limiting and bordering on commical in their formation keeping that I knew it wouldn't suffice... but I tried anyway. Once combat ensued the issues were magnified since the enemy was making impossibly long shots through clutter and buildings at maximum ranges... the wreckage of the vehicles cluttered up the road resulting in vehicles behind them picking their way through by heading over cliffs that were 50-70 degree declines (keeping in mind they couldn't pathfind their way down gradual slopes to follow a given route in the editor).

8) Vehicles park in accidental defillade and fire round after round into the dirt- which subsequently deflect high... over and over and over again.

9) Tanks in close quarters spin around and around, clipping through target tanks while moving through houses and doing this for 3+ minutes without shooting at one another. Once they separate, one tank gets caught in some graphical glitch and is unable to move (through the same area the other tank was freely twirling through). The other enters defilade and results in #8.

10) Units were engaging and eliminating entire incoming forces making impossible shots not only through trees (that's old news) but also the the wreckage of buildings.

11) Units in formation force themselves to go up terrain that is at too sharp an angle (while the lead vehicles remain on flat terrain) and end up getting caught going around in circles trying to pathfind around... pretty sure this just goes on until the unit is destroyed- but on occasion it's like vehicles enter a cycle that lasts a few minutes and then for some unknown reason they figure it out and continue onwards.

I came in here last night with my hands on fire- I was so / am so fed up with it... but I stepped back and knew nothing good could come from the fact that I was ready to burn the world down with my words.

But for every person who is sitting over there on their computer trying everything they can to create a mission that doesn't collapse under the weight of this ground based AI... Very few of them are saying anything anymore. My concern is, and I think the growing concern of guys who are still trying is that we're sitting here tolerating it- occasionally bellyaching about it... and as a result the enormity of exactly how bad it's getting is not being acknowledged.

I mean, it's really, really bad.

Not knowing there is any end in sight is exhausting... you guys are putting in hundreds of hours fixing stuff- but what needs to be remembered is that SO ARE WE. Every time these updates come out and crap all over the privately made missions (that in themselves take dozens and dozens of hours to produce in many cases) we need to go back to the drawing board. I'm not sure if I'm the only one- but most of the time these things break I am walking away from them and starting again... the stuff that changes is so deeply rooted it's almost impossible for an average mission maker to dig out the cause without someone who has advanced knowledge. Many / most of those guys rarely even come in anymore- not that I blame them.

Anyway... /rant

I've posted a track- taken of a test of my latest build. Un/ Fortunately it resulted in every one of my already mentioned glitches and also prompted me to add a few more. Except make it 6 hours now... of trying to make these AI units advance and attack the enemy positions. Frankly, in this state without airpower whittling them down I'd have been happy if they made it far enough to get killed... unfortunately it never quite works out as they don't make it that far.

ugh.trk

Ok. A little info that may help, when I create waypoints that just pass under the bridge (off road) the vehicle doesn't warp on top. It only happens when the waypoint is set to on road! ...so it should not be the terrain elevation, but something with the road network elevation getting miscalculated.

Hope that helps!

Bridges comedy!

Here comes my first.

Ground vehicle cluster themselves on bridge's fences, stop moving, and no longer respond to new commands (set path). It is hilarious to watch. Lots of ED's physics comedy show to laugh at :)

However it breaks most mission. This is on important west/east road.

I have noticed most MP servers are running missions and that's where all AI's end up either on their pre-edited routes or moved by GCMD client.

Coordinates on screenshot,

version 1.2.8 DCSW.

Nothing to do with particular bridges themselves, it applies to all bridges given the right circumstances. It is the AI that needs to be fixed.

EDIT:- It also has been reported to the Devs.

Nate

Super, renamed thread to Bridges comedy - can go to screenshots :)