Disable hydraulic system for testing?

Hey folks!

I would like to experience what it is like to fly without the hydraulics driving the control surfaces. Is there a way? A switch to flip? I mean theoretically the control surfaces will barely react at high speeds, I wanna experience that. :)

Also - how does trimming work without the hydraulics? Do I use the same keys? Or is there a separate trimmer? I saw a trimmer-like thing on the emergency panel but I have no idea how to use it.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Switch to manual reversion. There is no trip without hydraulics.

Switch to manual reversion. There is no trip without hydraulics.

Thank you for your response!:)

What do you mean by "trip"?

In the manual it says that roll is provided by the trim tabs on the ailerons. So that means I can not use the joystick for roll and HAVE to use trimming?

Quite tedious. :D

Thank you for your response!:)

 

What do you mean by "trip"?

 

In the manual it says that roll is provided by the trim tabs on the ailerons. So that means I can not use the joystick for roll and HAVE to use trimming?

 

Quite tedious. :D

I think he meant trim. Of course without hydraulics it will probably be a short trip... :smilewink:

In the manual it says that roll is provided by the trim tabs on the ailerons. So that means I can not use the joystick for roll and HAVE to use trimming?

Nope, you still use the stick as normal, but rather than moving the ailerons it will move the aileron trim tabs. The aerodynamic forces generated by the trim tabs will move the ailerons.

And if you're using MRFCS, you'd better be in perfectly trimmed level flight before you engage it. And make very small, slow stick inputs. It you're not very careful you'll find yourself a smoking hole in the ground.

If you're making your first visit into the world of MRFCS I recommend enabling it at at least 10000 ft to start with.

I think he meant trim. Of course without hydraulics it will probably be a short trip... :smilewink:

LOL...yeah TRIM not trip...and how manual reversion works in the sim it will be a short trip. I don't think manual reversion is modeled correctly to be honest.

Based on converstaions with our pilots who fly Functional Check Flights. One of the requirements is test manual reversion and if you lost control as easily in real life as in the sim we would loose a lot of jets.

I tried this today. It seems like trimming is still avaible. When I press my trim keys my plane responds to them. But instead of "nose up" it does "nose down" and vice versa.

I dont know...

It felt interesting and as paul said - it's easy to loose control. But if you make slow, steady movements it's all cool. Tried a belly landing with it, worked out well. I came in way to fast with no flaps or anything and then basically did a stoppie on my gun, turned over and went BOOM.

Never again, hahaha.

I wish this would have been posted before. I remember reading about a failure and when I lost some hardware on a gun run I tried to follow procedure. I almost got dead. I went into a stall at super low altitude. I recovered but because I only had one engine and it was at low power due to battle damage I never cleared the mountains. Even after full jettison. It was cold.

I recovered from stall but ended up circling around and getting chewed up by sir shoots lots of bullets. Should have ejected I was kinda hoping he didnt see my smoking heap in the sky cruise by at 150 knots. Yeah so that didnt work.

You could probably set up a trigger for a system malfunction.

Manual Reversion flight

Hi everybody, sorry to dig up this old thread. I haven't flown A-10C in manual reversion since the first beta, when it was WIP and if you tried it with your airspeed above something like 200 you would enter some wild, increasing amplitude pitch oscillations and definitely loose it if not high enough.

I just installed 1.1.2.1 in DCS World and had the idea to try it again, believing it must be fixed by now. Now flying with speeds in the region of 300 is possible, sure the plane feels very nervous and aggressive in the way it responds, it's not easy but definitely can be done. As someone above already pointed - why is the pitch trim control reversed? In manual reversion they work like booster tabs which is correct, but using both the normal and emer trim switches they move "the wrong way", the way the tabs move in the current Mustang version.

And even so, they are oversensitive. You only touch the trim for nose up and the plane violently pitches down. To me it appears at least an immediate fix of the way the tabs move in manual reversion could be done very easy. Why is not done yet?

About the oversensitive reaction when you use trims I imagine it's more complicated, there's stuff going on there and probably not easy to solve.

Actually in manual reversion the only items that actually move are the trim tabs. The airflow then moves the rest of the surface.

wish the MRFCS could be used by hand in helios on a touchscreen LCD. Would be uber-realistic.. You know, those switches and all..

Actually in manual reversion the only items that actually move are the trim tabs.

... when you're using normal or emer trim. And why do they move the wrong way in DCS?

... when you're using normal or emer trim. And why do they move the wrong way in DCS?

The trim tabs are not supposed to control the aircraft. That job is still done by the control surfaces. But the control surfaces are too big and in manual reversion mode you would have to push very hard to move them without the help of hydraulics. So what they do is give you direct control to the trim tabs which then move the CONTROL surfaces. And the control surfaces move the right way.

Think of it like this: If your right aileron goes down, the wing goes up. Now if the right trim tab goes up -> the aileron goes DOWN -> wing moves up, see?

I hope I did not misunderstand your question. :)

So what they do is give you direct control to the trim tabs which then move the CONTROL surfaces. And the control surfaces move the right way.

I understand that perfectly. All I was saying is that in manual reversion mode, when you try to use the pitch trim the elevator trim tabs move THE WRONG WAY, and that makes your life hard in the air. Please read again carefully my previous posts.

Please switch on manual reversion mode when you're on the ground. Now trim the aircraft nose up. Switch to external view to see what's happening. If you trim the plane for nose up, the elevator trim tab should go down as you correctly say, and when you're in the air the force developed on them would move the elevator up. But right now if you trim for nose up the elevator trim tab goes UP! Which is wrong. Please try it yourself.

Actually in manual reversion the only items that actually move are the trim tabs. The airflow then moves the rest of the surface.

I should have been more clear, in MRFCS for roll input it only moves the trim tabs (aileron). For all other surfaces (pitch, yaw) it is directly connected to and moves the actual control surfaces (elevators & rudders).

As to the trim tabs in the sim, never paid that much attention to them actually.

I understand that perfectly. All I was saying is that in manual reversion mode, when you try to use the pitch trim the elevator trim tabs move THE WRONG WAY, and that makes your life hard in the air. Please read again carefully my previous posts.

 

Please switch on manual reversion mode when you're on the ground. Now trim the aircraft nose up. Switch to external view to see what's happening. If you trim the plane for nose up, the elevator trim tab should go down as you correctly say, and when you're in the air the force developed on them would move the elevator up. But right now if you trim for nose up the elevator trim tab goes UP! Which is wrong. Please try it yourself.

Because to go nose up trim the whole control surface has to move up. But to move the control surface up the control tab has to move down. I haven't used it in this sim and the A-10 is not a KC-135. The only hydraulically powered control surface in a KC-135 is the Rudder. Everything else is done by control tabs and balance bays :)

So if you're using trim with no hydraulics. nose up is control surface up correct. so if you trim to move the control surface up (remember you're no longer moving the entire control surface just the tab now.) the control tab moves up instead which pushes the control surface down. Which is nose down. So that's why it's backwards.

I just checked DCS world and 1.1.1.1 and trim tabs move correctly.

Anyone managed to land the Hawg in MRFCS? (in DCS) :P

so if you trim to move the control surface up (remember you're no longer moving the entire control surface just the tab now.) the control tab moves up instead which pushes the control surface down. Which is nose down. So that's why it's backwards.

That's what I'm trying to explain here. When I'm flying in manual reversion if I trim for NOSE UP the plane goes NOSE DOWN and why is that? Because when I trim for NOSE UP the trim tab goes UP instead of DOWN!

I just checked DCS world and 1.1.1.1 and trim tabs move correctly.

How on earth? And during flight in manual reversion the effect of using pitch trim is not reversed? If you trim NOSE UP in manual reversion the plane goes nose up?

I tried this today. It seems like trimming is still avaible. When I press my trim keys my plane responds to them. But instead of "nose up" it does "nose down" and vice versa.

Looks like I'm not the only one where in manual reversion the trim effect is reversed. Anybody else tried that?

Anyone managed to land the Hawg in MRFCS? (in DCS) :P

I don't find that to be a big deal. Just have to be smoother. I flown it at speeds up to 350, behaved quite nervous but controllable with smooth inputs. I landed it in manual reversion even with flaps up, no problem. Managed to stop it on the runway with emer brake.

How on earth? And during flight in manual reversion the effect of using pitch trim is not reversed? If you trim NOSE UP in manual reversion the plane goes nose up?

Lets see..start up the sim, use my eyes to watch the trim tabs move....and they appear to move just like they do when I'm observing flight controls when launching our a real A-10...

That being said I did my test on the ground, i'll try it out in the air later this evening to see.

OK, this is probably my last tentative to explain what I'm experiencing. Maybe somebody will believe me. Maybe.

The plane is on the runway, ready for takeoff. Then: