How the simulator works..

Hi all,

First of all, thanks for all the help you've given as I've started to get to grips with the fundamentals of this sim, however when I don't understand something it hugely frustrates me and I can't find the answer to this question online! I'll try to keep it as brief as possible, but what I'm trying to understand is the 'nature' of the simulator...

We have, for example, a number of systems...Oil pressure, altitude, various GPS (or whatever it is called) systems, damage systems, which all seemingly work independently...

Does the game run these systems as independent processes which exactly replicate the real instruments in as much as they work based on an external input that the simulator provides by means of simulated physics, or do they simply simulate what we should see?

What I'm trying to ask is, are the helicopters systems independent of the data input (altitude, oil pressure etc) and do these variables (oil pressure, altitude) exist as external variables fed into the helicopters systems, and the helicopters simulated systems therefore process this data, or do these instruments work on the basis of 'real altitude is 30 metres, instrument knows this, add 3 metres for purely cosmetic simulation of a deviance'.

In addition, if all these sub systems are truly independent, is it at all possible to one day load the game and have one of them fail, or does failure only occur upon damage, and the game always presumes perfect, brand new parts.

Hope this has made some sense, although I think sometimes my thinking goes a bit too far....

Thanks all :)

Start here :) .....

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=950&scr=default&lang=en#p1

Nate

As far as i know everything is calculated. The following i find an nice example;

Helicopter A is hovering 50 meters above the sea, vertical speed is 0

If now helicopter B fly's over it at 70 meter ASL, helicopter A is unaffected by this.

Now if helicopter B fly's over A at 55 meter ASL, helicopter A will start descending and "oscillating" due to helicopters B downwash.

Now this is not an internal system of course but i am fairly sure those are modeled in similar detail.

Another example of the aerodynamics is the following, find a low building and hover in front of it at around 15 meters AGL.

Now slowly fly over the building without touching the collective, the moment your flying over the building the helicopter will go up, because it enters its own "ground effect" above the building. When you have overflown the building the ground effect is gone and you will decent again.

(note, only works at LOW speeds)

nice explanation Falcon,..yes, i agree the aerodynamic aspects are quite great, even the producers videos have shown how wind does influence the rotor blades of a parked ka50,...afaik it s the only sim with such complex algorithm...also you can have a look on the ballistics..

afaik the ABRIS has the real system depth,..it s an amazing simulation..

i almost use to say to my girl when she asks me,..are you playing again??

i say,..it s not a game, it s a simulation^^

Very interesting stuff - it really adds to the immersion to know how realistic it is. I wonder much it costs to make something like this!

hehe, nevermind to it!) it refers to ED!) and i think its expensive enough, but it s not our problem,..

i think it s our luck,yes it s great that the technology allows us, to get more and more to detailism. Some of my friends have asked me twice, are you watching a film, or what is it^^..oh no you re flying on yourself,WOW.

who has seen the sim in action, is almost impressed, equal if its FC2 or DCS.

hehe, nevermind to it!) it refers to ED!) and i think its expensive enough, but it s not our problem,..

 

i think it s our luck,yes it s great that the technology allows us, to get more and more to detailism. Some of my friends have asked me twice, are you watching a film, or what is it^^..oh no you re flying on yourself,WOW.

 

who has seen the sim in action, is almost impressed, equal if its FC2 or DCS.

Thats correct and if I show them the clickable cockpit combine with TrackIR their jaw drops to the ground.

yeha,...some of them got infected like me!) some others not,..but its a real pleasure to see the development in technology..especially if you ve started siming in 80ies or 90 ies, like me!)

wow

FYI, rotor in ground effect is modelled but the rotor wake (downwash) is not.

FYI, rotor in ground effect is modelled but the rotor wake (downwash) is not.

To explain further: One helos downwash cannot yet affect another helo. VRS is modelled, however (being caused by the helo's own downwash).

Yes, I think Falcon may believe he observed something that wasn't really there as currently the simulator does not model atmospheric interactions between different aircraft either in single or multiplayer. However, a different example is the radar altimeter. If you fly above another helicopter hovering above the ground, your radar altimeter reading will change.

Not only that - if someone is flying happily along in a shark and you crees up very close under him, you can set off his altitude warning.

We found that out while trying to land a Shark on an airborne Su-27. :D

Not only that - if someone is flying happily along in a shark and you crees up very close under him, you can set off his altitude warning.

 

We found that out while trying to land a Shark on an airborne Su-27. :D

how did it go?

lol i have to ask WHY?"

Didn't manage to "land", since the flanker had to pretty much ride the stall while the Shark was flying with overspeed alarms blaring, and it was therefore impossible to get them lined up to the point where "landing" would be even theoretically possible. Basically the shark had to fly with a nose-down attitude to maintain the speed while the Suchoi had a very high nose-up attitude to get sufficient AoA to maintain altitude, leading to an extreme attitude difference between the two aircraft.

As for "why"... it seemed fun at the time. Though it should be noted that I was flying an Eagle on left observation when this little "event" was going on.

Good Question

This is a really good question and one I keep asking myself too. I've only just with this sim and have been trying to work out the GNSS setups. I was stunned when the GPS sats came up but wanted to ask how much of this switch flicking is really just eye candy or how much is it simulating.

And it's a very hard question to answer. I mean, we don't expect the satellites to have simulated and probably (although I haven't checked), if I wheel my chopper into a hanger I probably won't lose GPS signal!

A few years ago, I bought a Shuttle Simulator. Some of you may have it. SO complicated with hundreds of switches that all needed to be flicked in a certain order. It became apparent though that they weren't connected to anything. Try as I did to break the shuttle, I couldn't. I'm sure I could if I went in the real one! The switches just had to be flicked in a certain order or nothing would happen!

I am, quite simply, stunned at this sim and it seems, from a link earlier in this thread, a whole is going on under the bonnet than we are aware of. But can you break the chopper without crashing it, from button pushing alone? Can you break a real aircraft by button pushing?

I am, quite simply, stunned at this sim and it seems, from a link earlier in this thread, a whole is going on under the bonnet than we are aware of. But can you break the chopper without crashing it, from button pushing alone? Can you break a real aircraft by button pushing?

The only way I can think of damaging the shark is by Disabling the Engine limiters. However disabling stuff like the Inertial Navigation Systems will make life fairly difficult in the air, as it is connected to so many other systems.

Nate

But can you break the chopper without crashing it, from button pushing alone? Can you break a real aircraft by button pushing?

Depends really on what you mean by "breaking" the chopper. Most systems that you "flick switches" for are indeed simulated properly, though. There are some rare exceptions where the switch operates but the corresponding function doesn't get simulated according to "real life" - a good example would be the IFF I think: IFF operation is simply secret enough that it's hard to convince a military contractor to allow it to be simulated "properly" in a commercial product. ECM and ECCM are similar areas, though they do not apply to DCS:BS.

But examples of ways to "break" the helicopter include:

- Laser burnout. If you don't adhere to locking limitations and lase targets continually you will burn out the laser lens.

- Fuel flow and hydraulics. Having "fun" with those can cause realistic errors to occur, since the simulator includes modeling of fluid flow through pipes, pumps and valves.

How simulators work:

Looped process done tens of times per second: -> calculated forces -> coordinates from motion equations ->

calculated forces

an example of motion equation

coordinates system

Further reading from ED sites:

http://lockon.co.uk/?end_pos=10&scr=list&page=4#470

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/index.php?end_pos=950&scr=default&lang=en#p1

But examples of ways to "break" the helicopter include:

- Laser burnout. If you don't adhere to locking limitations and lase targets continually you will burn out the laser lens.

- Fuel flow and hydraulics. Having "fun" with those can cause realistic errors to occur, since the simulator includes modeling of fluid flow through pipes, pumps and valves.

Ahhh... that's more like it. Talk like that gets me all excited. :noexpression:

Another one then:

- Turn off AC or DC (I get them mixed up) generator and several systems on that cirquit will fail.

Similarly:

Take your EEG throttle setting down and give high collective (or certain conditions even with throttles on auto) and the rotor blades can't rotate enough - which causes the generators to not get enough power and your avionics start powering down. ;)

Want more? :)