Damage model (Hit Points) for vehicles

Searched the forums but couldn't find an answer.

 

I was just hovering around the airbase and wanted to test the cannon of the Ka50.

As you know the airbase has a lot of trucks and vehicles parked together.

I fired the shortest burst possible (maybe 2-3 rounds went off) at the trucks and BOOM the whole thing blew off as if I dropped a lb bomb on them.

 

The cannon is way too powerful, and hitting 3-4 vehicles at the same time with barely 3 rounds is unrealistic as well.

 

Also, I had to use 3 Vikhr missiles to destroy a T80 Tank, is that normal?

 

Will this be addressed in a future patch?

 

Thanks for the answers.

 

Itai

Look at this and tell me, if the cannon is not powerful enough.

 

REMOVED

Edited April 25, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

woooooO!.

I sunk the Carl Vinson with a few dozen gun rounds at the tower , that's not right .

 

lol , I was really surprised to see the big thing go down .

The ships don't have a detailed damidge moddle Just like the tanks and ground units dont. Hoping for that in the next version of the game engin. supose to be out with the A-10 releas

The ships don't have a detailed damidge moddle Just like the tanks and ground units dont.

I'm not sure what's going on with the ships, but I do believe Black Shark has the most detailed vehicle damage modeling of any flight sim to date and may only be second to SB Pro PE. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Having said that, I'm sure it will be expanded in Warthog and beyond.

Edited April 25, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

I'm not sure what's going on with the ships, but I do believe Black Shark has the most detailed vehicle damage modeling of any flight sim to date and may only be second to SB Pro PE. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Having said that, I'm sure it will be expanded in Warthog and beyond.

 

Uhm how so? Vehicles has hitpoints and weapons subtract from that damage . . . and is that detailed?

Detailed is a relative term. :) So if we say the vehicles in Black Shark do not have a detailed damage model, my question is, relative to what? SP Pro PE? I agree. Anything else?

 

I think both things are true. The model is conceptually simple, while at the same time about as or more detailed than is standard for a PC flight sim.

Edited April 25, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

Look at this and tell me, if the cannon is not powerful enough.

REMOVED

 

What's that got to do with the OT?

 

@ Itael,

 

yup, there's some inconsistency in the damage modelling, as in other parts of BS. I read some of this will probably get adressed with the patch.

Edited April 25, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

Detailed is a relative term. :) So if we say the vehicles in Black Shark do not have a detailed damage model, my question is, relative to what? SP Pro PE? I agree. Anything else?

 

I think both things are true. The model is conceptually simple, while at the same time about as or more detailed than is standard for a PC flight sim.

 

IL-2? IL-2 has gun calibres vs armor modelled, so that you can't kill a Tank with .50 cal by "substracting hitpoints", they just bounce off. Other parts are identical to BS. ArmA?(since you compared to SB) ArmA has track/turret/engine damages + gun calibres modelled. For Falcon 4, I'm sure BS is a step ahead.

 

I don't want to sound like bashing BS, but this is definitely one area to work on for devs.

IL-2 has gun calibres vs armor modelled.

So does Black Shark. Moreover, Black Shark calculates the projectile physics in real time, so that you have realistic (relatively ;)) calculations of penetration and richochet. Black Shark also includes armor thickness variability over various sides of a vehicle, so attacking from different aspects makes a difference. I have no idea if IL-2 does any of this (hence I asked).

 

Of course, the more variables in the system, the harder it becomes to tune all of them to work well with each other through all possible combninations.This tuning is ongoing.

 

ArmA?

Being focused as a ground sim (like SB Pro PE), I would expect it to have a more detailed ground vehicles model. My point was that DCS is a flight sim and is developed as such. More importantly, it should be compared with other flight sims if we're interested in an useful analysis. Compared with other flight sims, I would not call the vehicle damage model in BS "not detailed."

 

I don't want to sound like bashing BS, but this is definitely one area to work on for devs.

Agreed. They're working on it.
Edited April 25, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

Thanks for the info TangoRomeo.

 

On a positive note, I think the effects of the AP rounds jumping off concrete is absolutely amazing!

Such attention to small detail is what makes high fidelity sims so enjoyable.

 

Itai

So does Black Shark. Moreover, Black Shark calculates the projectile physics in real time, so that you have realistic (relatively ;)) calculations of penetration and richochet. Black Shark also includes armor thickness variability over various sides of a vehicle, so attacking from different aspects makes a difference. I have no idea if IL-2 does any of this (hence I asked).

.

 

Ah I didn't know about those, perhaps the devs should give out more info about the features of the simulation.

So does Black Shark. Moreover, Black Shark calculates the projectile physics in real time, so that you have realistic (relatively ;)) calculations of penetration and richochet. Black Shark also includes armor thickness variability over various sides of a vehicle, so attacking from different aspects makes a difference. I have no idea if IL-2 does any of this (hence I asked).

 

I still don't think that one or two HE rounds should be able to explode a BRDM2 or BMP.

I still don't think that one or two HE rounds should be able to explode a BRDM2 or BMP.

 

You're right, it doesn't look right. But I'm quite sure that's already somewhere in the wishlist.

As you know the airbase has a lot of trucks and vehicles parked together.

I fired the shortest burst possible (maybe 2-3 rounds went off) at the trucks and BOOM the whole thing blew off as if I dropped a lb bomb on them.

 

The cannon is way too powerful, and hitting 3-4 vehicles at the same time with barely 3 rounds is unrealistic as well.

 

Vehicles that are added as static objects (rather than as actual ground units) seem to be very prone to rapid combustion. If you hit a truck which has been added as a ground unit with a cannon shell, it will catch fire and explode shortly after. The static objects will explode on impact, and often nearby statics will also explode. I think static objects have far fewer hitpoints and can easily be destroyed via "splash damage". I would expect many of the flavour added to an airbase to be static objects to keep processing time to a minimum in-game.

 

Also, I had to use 3 Vikhr missiles to destroy a T80 Tank, is that normal?

T-80s are very well armored, so yes. I normally use the long burst mode to fire 2 Vikhrs at once when engaging modern tanks. Also it depends on which angle you engage them from - their armor is strongest at the front.

 

It's also possible that one or more of your shots didn't quite impact properly - sometimes the missile will hit the ground just before the target. Even with direct hits, it's possible 2 wouldn't be quite enough to destroy it.

As you know the airbase has a lot of trucks and vehicles parked together.

I fired the shortest burst possible (maybe 2-3 rounds went off) at the trucks and BOOM the whole thing blew off as if I dropped a lb bomb on them.

 

The cannon is way too powerful, and hitting 3-4 vehicles at the same time with barely 3 rounds is unrealistic as well.

Man, I'm sure you fired on the fuel trucks located in airbase (the very long trucks that are usualy in AB) it's normal that they explode so easly.

 

And about the T80 are you sure all the Vikhr had a direct hit ?

Man, I'm sure you fired on the fuel trucks located in airbase (the very long trucks that are usualy in AB) it's normal that they explode so easly.

 

 

And about the T80 are you sure all the Vikhr had a direct hit ?

 

Oh no, trust me they were the normal trucks, as well as the Jeeps, they explode from 1-2 shells at once.

 

I flew the Shooting range mission that came with the game and there are many T80's there, I always needed 3 Vikhr missles to destroy them, didn't matter from which angle I attacked them.

 

Itai

Oh no, trust me they were the normal trucks, as well as the Jeeps, they explode from 1-2 shells at once.

 

I flew the Shooting range mission that came with the game and there are many T80's there, I always needed 3 Vikhr missles to destroy them, didn't matter from which angle I attacked them.

 

Itai

 

Odd, I can take out each T80 in that mission with a single Vikhr, even frontally. Note that the tank won't blow up immediately when it's "destroyed", it takes several second for it to brew up. Try waiting a bit after the first Vikhr strike and make sure that it's really taking you more than a single missile.

I still don't think that one or two HE rounds should be able to explode a BRDM2 or BMP.

Correct. HE bug fixed in 1.0.1, along with other damage value adjustments. "This tuning is ongoing." :smilewink:
Edited April 26, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

Correct. HE bug fixed in 1.0.1. :)

 

Aw, dangit! There go half my kills! :doh:

I still don't think that one or two HE rounds should be able to explode a BRDM2 or BMP.

 

Just as a point of interest, if a 30mm HE round penetrates the crew compartment of a BMP, one round could easily be enough to light up the fuel and ammo stored there. It's not a well armoured or layed out IFV.

 

(Of course I'm not saying that this should happen every time.)

Edited April 26, 2009 by McVittees

Should small caliber HE rds be able to penetrate into the fighting compartment at all if the vehicle is buttoned up? I would expect it to maybe do some external damage to optics, antennas, tracks, wheels .... for the effect of a mobility kill at the most.

not to say that the guys inside said apc would be up shits creek from the rounds ricocheting around the inside....we are talking about HE rounds so there not just going in and stoping..there going BOOM so just a few will do the trick...and also if you gate the trgt small you can hit the thing anywhere you want..