VKB Gladiator WWII joystick

Gladiator official Q&A in English posted on VKB forum:

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2282

UIV - About future throttles:

"... throttles planned modular. At the beginning planned base model, sharpened by the pistons aircraft, and modernization sets of this model for helicopters.

My vision of the concept of the second throttle - is stylized to civil aviation or multi-engine bombers.

One plan under "space craft" grip second stylistically close to PAK-FA.

But 100% copy will not do, the emphasis - styling without compromising ease of use in the simulator.

In the military, their have standard for grips and they are very hard.

Follow them - make the grip inconvenient in games.

Desire analog brake enormous (on grip, style Mig-21).

The only doubt with a tensor - you damn break their will.

Field tests show."

So what will be the difference between the two and why offer both? Will this one phase out when the Gunfighter is released?

The Gladiator has been designed as an all-in-one solution for an attractive price. Mostly used on a desk. It could also be used as a "mobile" solution, just like Andrew did.

The Gunfighter is the high-end solution, as you'll need more space (stick + throttle + pedals) (and $$$ ;) ) and it's been designed to be used with an extender but should also be a great side-stick solution (like the Black Mamba).

Thanks to the modular design, the Gladiator can be upgraded to a Pro version and it will allow different grips. But that's just an option.

I'll try to use the Gladiator with Elite Dangerous, as I prefer having the rudder axis on the stick for that space sim (I'm using the T-Rudder for the forward/backward thrust). No idea if it will be comfortable enough but I'll also use it to test the WWII aircraft in DCS and IL2 BoS/CoD.

The Gunfighter is the high-end solution, as you'll need more space (stick + throttle + pedals) (and $$$ ;) ) and it's been designed to be used with an extender but should also be a great side-stick solution (like the Black Mamba).

 

Thanks to the modular design, the Gladiator can be upgraded to a Pro version and it will allow different grips. But that's just an option.

Thanks for the info.

I guess what I was more curious about without making it real clear, was the difference in the Gunfighter versus this Gladiator Pro version.

Is the Gunfighter even higher end than the Gladiator Pro?

Gladiator PRO - is the "entry level" Gladiator plastic case with "all metal and bearings Next Gen CAM gimbal".

Gunfighter - same "all metal and bearings Next Gen CAM gimbal" but with a metal case designed from the very begin for use a 20 cm extension, so the case design take in count the forces involved.

VKB don't advise use their 20 cm extension on Gladiator PRO as the lever forces can flex/deform the plastic case.

But probable people will use 3rd part extensions with 7/10/12... cm - like in Warthog - if someone make then. ;)

Internals - USB controller, contact less MaRS sensors - and plastic KG12 grip (for now) is common to all models , so in this aspects Gunfighter will be not "more higher end" than Gladiator or Gladiator PRO.

PRO and Gunfighter allow use 3rd part grips (Warthog, Cougar, Cobra M5) * and future new grips from VKB.

* I ask UIV to make possible use CH "F-16" grips too as they are very common and can supply some people need of buttons/HAT's - they say that will study the possibility. CH sticks use diode matrix instead Shift Register for manage buttons, but VKB USB controller Njoy32 can manage both. ;)

Thanks Sokol, that certainly helps me understand the differences. I will wait and see what develops with the Gunfighter.

Got one!

First impression is really good (unsurprisingly) even if I tend to look at plastic things suspiciously.

Plastic is solid butter if you don't know that.

I won't be able to give you any detailed feedback now as I barely had the time to test yet (a couple of hours). It's doing fine with Elite Dangerous (using the hat for the thrusters) (combined with my X55 throttle) and I'll try to get some time this week end to test it on the P-51D, the MiG-15Bis (I don't own the Bf-109 - I'm not into WW2 aircraft/era) and some Il-2 aircraft.

There are some nice features like the magnetized trigger, so it does not flap around in the firing position - it also uses a snap-action switch (great feeling and probably highly wear-resistant).

I'm not super-comfortable with the pinky button activation but it's very early.

Precision is excellent as you would expect from contact-less sensors. 11-bit for pitch and roll and 10-bit for the rudder twist-grip. That's intentional as you could push that to 15-bit - but that's absolutely not required for these movement ranges.

Compared with the Extreme3D Pro, the buttons feel much more reliable - we'll see how they can withstand some extensive use in time, of course.

If you have any question, ask away, I'll do my best to answer ;)

Oh yes: and the box looks cool :D

Got one!

 

First impression is really good (unsurprisingly) even if I tend to look at plastic things suspiciously.

Plastic is solid butter if you don't know that.

 

I won't be able to give you any detailed feedback now as I barely had the time to test yet (a couple of hours). It's doing fine with Elite Dangerous (using the hat for the thrusters) (combined with my X55 throttle) and I'll try to get some time this week end to test it on the P-51D, the MiG-15Bis (I don't own the Bf-109 - I'm not into WW2 aircraft/era) and some Il-2 aircraft.

 

There are some nice features like the magnetized trigger, so it does not flap around in the firing position - it also uses a snap-action switch (great feeling and probably highly wear-resistant).

 

I'm not super-comfortable with the pinky button activation but it's very early.

 

Precision is excellent as you would expect from contact-less sensors. 11-bit for pitch and roll and 10-bit for the rudder twist-grip. That's intentional as you could push that to 15-bit - but that's absolutely not required for these movement ranges.

Compared with the Extreme3D Pro, the buttons feel much more reliable - we'll see how they can withstand some extensive use in time, of course.

 

If you have any question, ask away, I'll do my best to answer ;)

 

Oh yes: and the box looks cool :D

I've been using the Gladiator for a couple of weeks--also with the X55 throttle--and I think your first impressions are pretty accurate.

I'm fairly new to flight sims and don't understand all the technical stuff, but it feels accurate and precise, the buttons feel snappy and not cheap (unlike the Cobra M5 it replaced), and the main thing I like about the Gladiator is that it's comfortable. Feels really good in the hand.

I've read somewhere that the lack of buttons on the stick is an issue for modern aircraft, but there's a million buttons on the X55 throttle handle so that hasn't been an issue for me. Haven't tried (or likely need) the Wizzo software yet.

Pinky button does take a little getting used to but I'm almost there and it seems reliable.

And you're right about the box! Looks cool, as does the Gladiator itself in a foreboding black-dildo-on-a-display-stand kind of way.

Overall, highly recommended (with the obvious reliability caveat--too soon to tell).

I think I am going to hold out and try the Gunfighter when it gets released.

I plan on putting my Warthog grip on it, to have all the buttons available which I am used to. I just really like having those hats/buttons available for programming, so easy to use when on the grip.

Depending on how involved it is to move the Warthog grip to the Gunfighter, I may even order another Warthog joystick only, maybe when there is a sale, to have an extra grip to use so the existing Warthog stick is available to me anytime I choose to use it for whatever reason. I really like it with the 7.5cm extension as it is now, but I am very intrigued about the Gunfighter base and internals.

I wonder if one can use the Warthog grip with the Gunfighter model with the 20cm extension on it? If so that may well seal the deal for me.

I wonder if one can use the Warthog grip with the Gunfighter model with the 20cm extension on it? If so that may well seal the deal for me.

That was already possible on the old VKB Mamba, and should be available with the Gunfighter as well; see here:

That was already possible on the old VKB Mamba, and should be available with the Gunfighter as well; see here:

Now that would be great, if that is the case I will certainly give the Gunfighter a try when it becomes available.

If they can make it for under $250us I'm in.

Now in regards to the Gunfighter the question is when. I understand the Gladiator Pro has been delayed until Sept, probably does not bode well...

I wonder if one can use the Warthog grip with the Gunfighter model with the 20cm extension on it? If so that may well seal the deal for me.

From VKB "In developing" page:

RUS = РУС - Pучка Yправления Cамолётом - Ruchnoy Upravleniye Samolet ~ Control Column of Airplane ~ Joystick/stick.

From VKB "In developing" page:

 

Good deal thanks. Will be keeping an eye out for the eventual release.

Im eagerly awaiting any information regarding the Gunfighter as well.

"Screwdriver review". :)

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2579-gladiator-novyj-byudzhetnyj-dzhoj-ot-vkb/page-68#entry434372

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2579-gladiator-novyj-byudzhetnyj-dzhoj-ot-vkb/page-68#entry434385

for nonpro version of gladiator, can we replace it's grip with a defender or warthog grip? can we use all buttons and switches?

for nonpro version of gladiator, can we replace it's grip with a defender or warthog grip? can we use all buttons and switches?

Nope. Only pro-version metal gimbal allows for that. All buttons and switches will work once you set them up with the configurator app.

bad to hear that. i am useing ch fighter and can't afford 300 usd standalone stick.

i think i will get a cobra and try this mod to use helicepters in a proper way.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2738654&postcount=667

Warthog/Cougar grip is too heavy (~900 grams) for Gladiator (non PRO) gimbal, but a plastic CH Combat or Fighterstick (or Suncom F-15) will be possible use.

Will be need install a Shift Register PCB inside to make compatible with VKB controller, some DIY not complicated.

Warthog/Cougar grip is too heavy (~900 grams) for Gladiator (non PRO) gimbal, but a plastic CH Combat or Fighterstick (or Suncom F-15) will be possible use.

 

Will be need install a Shift Register PCB inside to make compatible with VKB controller, some DIY not complicated.

Non-pro Glad grip is not detachable.

Non-pro Glad grip is not detachable.

Not problem, we made then detachable. :D

In Amazon users review someone complain that Gladiator is "loose" in center, more in Y axis, as in this video:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91bvfoHfD0[/ame]

UIV (VKB) explain this backlash (GT :hehe:):

Gladiator is a budget joystick completely made ​​of plastic. Any plastic joystick has backlash. Only a metal gimbal made ​​on high-precision CNC machines, all axes on bearings can provide a backlash "free" mechanism. Gladiator PRO has this metal gimbal option.

 

In plastic gimbal mechanims we tried make the backlash minimum.

Manufacturers of plastic joysticks "hide" the backlash in different ways.

 

Set non adjustable deadzones in the controller, "overload" the gimbal using strong springs, or even the "cone lock" of Saitek joysticks.

 

It all boils down to the fact that in the center position the joystick handle is very inconvenient to work.

 

The high strength of the pushing handle to the place makes precise aiming and "steer" not comfortable.

 

Our goal was make Gladiator with a very soft center.

In the loading mechanism of Gladiator - a set of trade-offs between casting precision parts, contact area, materials and lubricant.

 

In the development process has been made ​​and tested a lot of different options.

Owners of joystick Cobra M-5 that compare the work of their loading mechanism with Gladiator, will feel the difference immediately.

 

Explain more why in the middle of pitch is more than in roll.

 

First ,Gladiator was designed for maneuvering air combat (dogfights), and not for "Kosmosimov".

 

How we manage the joystick during the fight? First working on roll to rotate the plane of the plane to the desired angle, but the anticipation when shooting we set working pen on the pitch. Pulling or pushing the handle. More than a mild stroke in the middle of the pitch will give a more comfortable choice of preemption.

A damping grease to handle return mechanism just gives a "tough" course of the handle in the middle, removing the "emptiness" of its movement.

 

We understood the majority of joysticks on the market is "hard" in the center.

And some "virpilots" may dont like of Gladiator. But we are not afraid of changes, our task is to give a good control device, not a "cut down" money for a new design of the new joystick. Joystick market is not crowded and the new models come out is not very often.

Opera resume: For fly "Kosmosimov" or "F-XY fly-by-wire" Gladiator may not the best option. :joystick: ;)

I don't even get what the point of complaining about this "backlash" is.

Cause if the stick sat firmly in the center of axis, it would unpleasantly interfere with precise aiming when the pilot needs to make minute adjustments in the near-centre zone.