DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

The gear handle is left of the pilot seat. A large lever that reminds you a bit of a hand brake in a car. The reverser is activated by pulling a T-handle on the left side of the center panel. Roughly where the weapon selector rotary is in the Mig 21.

Hmm, I couldn't find it. maybe it was taken out.

Like JanTelefon says, the landing gear lever is to the left side of the pilot, it's just really far back and pretty low. I've marked it in red:

Maybe I wasn't looking far enough back actually. Oh well.

I heard another story about a J35 from F4 returning to base after having reported a bird strike. When the mechanics looked at the damages they found needles from a spruce tree so they confronted the pilot and questioned his bird strike report. He replied "So what? I can't help that the @$#o@#% bird was sitting in the top of a tree, can I?"

I heard another story about a J35 from F4 returning to base after having reported a bird strike. When the mechanics looked at the damages they found needles from a spruce tree so they confronted the pilot and questioned his bird strike report. He replied "So what? I can't help that the @$#o@#% bird was sitting in the top of a tree, can I?"

Spoken like a true viking draken driver! :megalol:

Hmm, I couldn't find it. maybe it was taken out.

I sat in that very cockpit earlier this spring, and I'm 99% sure it's still there.

Maybe I wasn't looking far enough back actually. Oh well.

It's really far back. Roughly by your butt cheek. :)

TIL that when they updated CK37 (the central computer aboard the AJS 37) from its original 60's incarnation to 80's technology, the CPU they chose was a 80286 together with the 80287 math coprocessor. If you had an IBM PC or PC clone in the mid-80's, you probably had a very similar CPU.

(I'm on vacation, that's why I'm posting so much)

Renhanxue, very informative information you're posting, greatly appreciated!

Do you know if the computer in early Gripen planes used the CK37 or perhaps an improved version?

Renhanxue, very informative information you're posting, greatly appreciated!

Do you know if the computer in early Gripen planes used the CK37 or perhaps an improved version?

Well, remember that the original CK37 was a dawn-of-the-digital-era design from the late 60's. The 80286 solution in the AJS 37 was kind of a kludge, really - they upgraded the core of the computer with 80's off-the-shelf components, new memory etc, but kept most of the old interfaces the same while adding a few new ones (such as the MIL-STD-1553B serial bus).

The Gripen A and B's computer was a completely new, modern (for the 90's) design and while I know very little about it I believe it was based on the PowerPC architecture (also popular in 90's Macintoshes), with CPU's made by Ericsson. There's a little information about it here: http://www.x-plane.org/home/urf/aviation/gripen/gripen-network.html

Another fun anecdote regarding the avioics is that apparently when the inertial navigation system in the JA 37 was upgraded from the older "manual" system to a computerized system from the US, they found it troublesome with integration and simply let the computer simulate the old system and not really doing anything.

Sorry for link in swedish, but notes from a fairly interesting seminar on the man/machine interface on the (primaily fighter) viggen. [ame]http://www.aef.se/Kopierade_dokument/JA37_Pilot_och_system.pdf[/ame]

Found two really nice pictures. Enjoy ! :)

[is it correct that the aim9l equivalents also work on the inner pylons ? On the loadout list on page 1 they are only listed for the most outward stations.]

I think you got the 9L and the 9J mixed up. Rb 74 (AIM-9L) can only be carried on the S7 pylons (under the fuselage) and on the V7 pylons (inner wing stations). Or, well, at an airshow you can mount whatever dummy weapons in whatever configuration you want to confuse people (I'm pretty sure this has actually happened), but they can only be fired from there.

The only weapon that can be carried on the R7 pylons (outermost wing pylons) is rb 24J, which is similar to (but not the same as) AIM-9J.

Not all possible weapon combinations implied by the image in the OP actually work in reality; the combinations that are possible to configure and are cleared for flight are listed in Speciell klargöringsinstruktion fpl AJS, AJSH, AJSF 37: vapen/spaning: klargöringsdel (or in plain English: the "preflight manual" for the ground crew). I've photographed the relevant pages (but nothing else from that manual; it's not really relevant to pilots). The bk 90 is not listed for some reason - maybe it wasn't in service yet in 1995 when this was published? Basically though, in general you're stuck with carrying one main weapon system and to that you can add Sidewinders and/or countermeasures to taste. The only exception to this seems to be that you can combine rb 05 and the autocannon pods.

Interestingly, a few configurations involving rb 15 mandate the drop tank, presumably for center of gravity and/or lift reasons, while if you want 16 bombs and Sidewinders you'll have to let the drop tank go, or fly it empty (presumably for MTOW reasons).

Yes the options for different armament combinations are very limited. There is a rotary-switch where the ground crew selects what armament is carried and it only allows one type of air-to-ground type except for the Rb05/AKAN-combo (and possibly AGM65/AKAN, not sure). I am considering expanding the list of possible combinations but the ultimate restriction is the weapon selector in the cockpit (for example the same switch position selects the bombs in dive aiming as well as the Rb05 in anti ship configuration iirc).

Yes the options for different armament combinations are very limited. There is a rotary-switch where the ground crew selects what armament is carried and it only allows one type of air-to-ground type except for the Rb05/AKAN-combo (and possibly AGM65/AKAN, not sure). I am considering expanding the list of possible combinations but the ultimate restriction is the weapon selector in the cockpit (for example the same switch position selects the bombs in dive aiming as well as the Rb05 in anti ship configuration iirc).

I would prefer sticking to realistic loadouts only :)

May I suggest to add a small section to the manual with a set of voluntary "house rules" for players wanting to fly a AJ 37 (pre-AJS) configuration. Like "no RBS 15" and "Rb 24J only on inner stations" etc.

Yes the options for different armament combinations are very limited. There is a rotary-switch where the ground crew selects what armament is carried and it only allows one type of air-to-ground type except for the Rb05/AKAN-combo (and possibly AGM65/AKAN, not sure). I am considering expanding the list of possible combinations but the ultimate restriction is the weapon selector in the cockpit (for example the same switch position selects the bombs in dive aiming as well as the Rb05 in anti ship configuration iirc).

I supposed that you are creating an AJS-37. Any aircraft have his strong points and his weakness. We cannot change the reality, we musn't change it.

Now you don't like the loadouts, maybe tomorrow you are not satisfied with the aircraft performance and in a week you started to think that can be cool if the Viggen has a twin tail, two engines...or something else.

I would say to put unrealistic options in "specials tab" is a better way, If they should be an option at all. Restrictions on capability is also a fun part of each module and forces players to learn new tactics to overcome them.

I would prefer sticking to realistic loadouts only :)

Seconded.

I would say to put unrealistic options in "specials tab" is a better way, If they should be an option at all. Restrictions on capability is also a fun part of each module and forces players to learn new tactics to overcome them.

Something like this would be nice.

Just sat in an actual Viggen at the Aeroseum in Gothenburg. Really nice cockpit and quite roomy. At least in comparison to the Draken, which was almost claustrophobic.

 

I had great fun flipping switches! :D I didn't manage to find the gear lever though. I thought it was supposed to be somewhere to the left side of the pilot.

 

Anyway, I can recommend going there if you're ever in Gothenburg.

Did you try the simulator?

Even if just FSX, it was quite fun to try.

Especially surprising was that heavy joystick compared to my WT at home. :)

(And yes, I think it is probably a JA model they use for the simulator)

Of course I hope they upgrade to DCS once the LN Viggen is out. :smilewink: :D

They also have an AJ or AJS one can sit in:

:)

I recommend very much the Aeroseum as well.

It is a quite extraordinary place. :)

http://www.aeroseum.se/index.html

I would prefer sticking to realistic loadouts only :)

I would say to put unrealistic options in "specials tab" is a better way, If they should be an option at all. Restrictions on capability is also a fun part of each module and forces players to learn new tactics to overcome them.

+1 one to these two.

Really prefer realistic options as much as possible.

That's part of the charm of DCS. :)

I would prefer sticking to realistic loadouts only :)

I agree, the decision to include the AGM-65B makes sense, but other then that realistic load out options is preferred to me. :-) Having to deal with the limitations of the real aircraft is part of the fun. :-)

I agree, the decision to include the AGM-65B makes sense, but other then that realistic load out options is preferred to me. :-)

Yeah, the AGM-65B is one of the rare exceptions regarding realism that I'm ok with, because of the limitations by the game.

I think you got the 9L and the 9J mixed up. Rb 74 (AIM-9L) can only be carried on the S7 pylons (under the fuselage) and on the V7 pylons (inner wing stations). Or, well, at an airshow you can mount whatever dummy weapons in whatever configuration you want to confuse people (I'm pretty sure this has actually happened), but they can only be fired from there.

 

The only weapon that can be carried on the R7 pylons (outermost wing pylons) is rb 24J, which is similar to (but not the same as) AIM-9J.

 

Not all possible weapon combinations implied by the image in the OP actually work in reality; the combinations that are possible to configure and are cleared for flight are listed in Speciell klargöringsinstruktion fpl AJS, AJSH, AJSF 37: vapen/spaning: klargöringsdel (or in plain English: the "preflight manual" for the ground crew). I've photographed the relevant pages (but nothing else from that manual; it's not really relevant to pilots). The bk 90 is not listed for some reason - maybe it wasn't in service yet in 1995 when this was published? Basically though, in general you're stuck with carrying one main weapon system and to that you can add Sidewinders and/or countermeasures to taste. The only exception to this seems to be that you can combine rb 05 and the autocannon pods.

 

Interestingly, a few configurations involving rb 15 mandate the drop tank, presumably for center of gravity and/or lift reasons, while if you want 16 bombs and Sidewinders you'll have to let the drop tank go, or fly it empty (presumably for MTOW reasons).

Oh yee got the two aim9 variants mixed up although i technically knew better. :D

That is a really interesting table, the only thing whih is a bit sad, that there is no 75/AK/24j option. [With all 6 hardpoints used.] Or not even two 75s and two AKANs. Although tbh it looks really weird to me that you can load an 24j/74 and one 75 on the s7 while loading akan on the V7. Would have thought you can at least carry two 75s on s7 and two AKAN on V7. That would have been quite good for taking out more then 2 targets without the DWS39.

Its really weird how the left S7 pylon is in some configs able or forced to take an aim9. :D

But I guess the manual doesnt lie ! ^^

As long as there will be an option with two DWS39 and two 75 plus two 24Js, I am completely happy. :D

Yes the options for different armament combinations are very limited. There is a rotary-switch where the ground crew selects what armament is carried and it only allows one type of air-to-ground type except for the Rb05/AKAN-combo (and possibly AGM65/AKAN, not sure). I am considering expanding the list of possible combinations but the ultimate restriction is the weapon selector in the cockpit (for example the same switch position selects the bombs in dive aiming as well as the Rb05 in anti ship configuration iirc).

Ahh, I see, I guess that is Vapenväljare => Waffenwähler => Weapon selector.

Inställn Klaff is probably fixed canard flap angle determined by load ?

Vapen Antal => Waffen Anzahl => Weapon count/amoun, I guess.

Ah uhm is that V/H switch responsible for the weird left/right asymetry I did point out before ?

Looks like if the left pylons are populated with any weapon that is communicating with system in the Aircraft [05,15,75], the switch has to be in V [Vull, voll, full I guess], while if only pylons on the right are populated it is [dunno if it has to or simply can be, could imagine it has something to do with the sequence, which weapon is fired first, if the left is fired first and there is no selector to switch to the right, you simply set it to H where it fires the right one first, because there is none on the left pylon ? just wildly speculating here.] set to H [halb => half ?].

Hmm, and apart from the RBS15 setups, the R7 pylons are only populated in the V setting.

Hmm since the selectors are in the same position for the 05/BK/24j setup as they are for the 75/AK/74 except the V/H selector, I would guess that rb75/AK/24j is not allowed because of aerodynamic or load limitations, not weapon system limitations. Only difference beeing V/H is probably so you can have at least one Aim9 sacrificing one AGM65.

Really hope we wont suffer from this with an DWS39/RB75 Combo. :DD

But whatevar I want it realistic. :)

EDIT: And I agree that RB75B is an acceptable exception due to game limitations.

EDIT2: If the Radar cursor is visible in the HUD, where it should be on the ground we prob dont even need RB75 unless attacking structures. Simply send an DWS39 there with 24MJ2 selftargeting anti tank bomblets and be like "F**K anything in that area". :DD I am mainly interested in the DWS39/RB75 setup since it would give the option to take out two high treaht targets at a bit longer range and or clear two targets, after you threw two hammers at them.

Yes the Rb75/DWS39(="Bk90" in Sweden) is one of those combinations that could be enabled if less realistic options was added.

When using the Bk90/DWS39 there is no indication on the HUD where on the ground the target is, only the direction where to fly to (and when to release the munition). Other attack-modes does show where the target is on the ground (like for rockets for example). The reason they don't show it is because while using the Bk90 the velocity vector indicator/flight path marker is displayed and it's the same symbol as the target-marker (!) - a ring. The HUD in the Viggen is very different to what we are used to, especially that it uses a small number of symbols (a ring and 14 lines in different lengths) which all have different meanings in different modes. For example, the tailfin of the velocity vector indicator indicates the error in time-to-waypoint when navigating and it also indicates that the radar is used to measure distance to the ground when attacking.

I am mainly interested in the DWS39/RB75 setup since it would give the option to take out two high treaht targets at a bit longer range and or clear two targets, after you threw two hammers at them.

The solution would be to bring a wingman with Rb75 and carry BK90 yourself. ;-)

Yes the Rb75/DWS39(="Bk90" in Sweden) is one of those combinations that could be enabled if less realistic options was added.

 

When using the Bk90/DWS39 there is no indication on the HUD where on the ground the target is, only the direction where to fly to (and when to release the munition). Other attack-modes does show where the target is on the ground (like for rockets for example). The reason they don't show it is because while using the Bk90 the velocity vector indicator/flight path marker is displayed and it's the same symbol as the target-marker (!) - a ring. The HUD in the Viggen is very different to what we are used to, especially that it uses a small number of symbols (a ring and 14 lines in different lengths) which all have different meanings in different modes. For example, the tailfin of the velocity vector indicator indicates the error in time-to-waypoint when navigating and it also indicates that the radar is used to measure distance to the ground when attacking.

I feel like the hud will be the biggest obstacle for me to get used to after only flying American jets for so long. :P