AvioDev C-101 Release Announcement

What about people who are happy with an SFM+ASM plane, and want to pay less?

I remember one of the posters from VEAO saying a real life Hawk pilot had flown the Hawk SFM, he was very impressed with its flight dynamics.

What about people who are happy with an SFM+ASM plane, and want to pay less?

 

I remember one of the posters from VEAO saying a real life Hawk pilot had flown the Hawk SFM, he was very impressed with its flight dynamics.

They were impressed because they had not yet the chance to test the AFM. :o)

I bet, they would be even more impressed by the AFM.

But maybe that pilot has no interest in the AFM because it costs a bit more!

Yes, maybe.

And maybe this thread winds on and on and on and on and on. And then we start all over with it once more. *shrug*

I just thought it'd be a little funny if they removed the SFM purchasing option for the mid-core pilots, in order to simplify the purchasing options for confused hardcore pilots... :)

No no no ... the only criticism here is about the idea to release SFM independently from the AFM version, as separate products with separate prices.

 

Instead the suggestion is: release with SFM with the promise for a free update that implements the AFM later. One product, now SFM but later AFM, one price (AFM price, ofc). --> less confusion, less organization hassles but still asap cash flow.

^ This. I have to agree seem to be the simplest, quickest and most logical path, and provides some cash flow required by the dev.

I really don't see the point of SFM any more (acknowledging that SFM leads to an earlier release date initially). However, I'm sure most of us fly DCS because of the more detailed system modelling and higher fidelity flight models on offer.

The release of the Hawk backs this up. VEAO have canned the idea of going SFM first in future. Apparently very few bought the SFM version for starters and those who did no doubt were planning to do the upgrade later on. The Hawk is a great aircraft, but boring to fly at the moment IMHO. I've had a play with it, but will wait until the AFM version is released before I take it out of the hanger again.

No no no ... the only criticism here is about the idea to release SFM independently from the AFM version, as separate products with separate prices.

 

Instead the suggestion is: release with SFM with the promise for a free update that implements the AFM later. One product, now SFM but later AFM, one price (AFM price, ofc). --> less confusion, less organization hassles but still asap cash flow.

Tango this is what we mean!

Cashflow is very important. I think every dcs pilot must support 3rd party devs with money.

But things about future AFM update must be more clear, so wait for Tango and prepare your money.

What's next? A third version of the aircraft without the clickable cockpit? Even cheaper? What VEAO is doing with its Hawk is a mistake, which I hope they'll correct as soon as possible, other modules shouldn't follow their example. It's going to be hard to properly communicate, support and handle all these flight model differentiation and probably will be more trouble that it's worth, my guess is ED might enforce unified versions down the road on such modules.

Not to mention I don't think SFM is there to catter for the poorer or the less dedicated or the more casual players. I think it's just there because it's easier to develop and faster to get it playable, if coding and tweaking an AFM/EFM/PFM (ugh..) was as easy and cheap to develop as the SFM I doubt there would be any debate at all and AFM/EFM/PFM would be the default and only flight model.

On top of that I bet there's a lot of people, including me, that want to support 3rd party devs early on but who absolutely aren't interested in SFM and as a result cannot support these 3rd party devs who chose to release SFM early on for that specific intent. Ironic. I could be wrong, but DCS World is one of the very few hardcore sim out there in a market that is full of more casual games, please don't take it away from us, it's one of the lasts sim/study sim bastions.

What about those players who only use the game mode with external views? They don't need all that fancy cockpit stuff!

I guess we got our point across.

No all our modules will be EFM only going forwards, this was a call that we made after the experience with the Hawk and the small number of people that ordered the SFM variant.

 

Pman

What's next? A third version of the aircraft without the clickable cockpit? Even cheaper? What VEAO is doing with their Hawk is a mistake, which I hope they'll correct as soon as possible, other module shouldn't follow their example. It's going to be hard to properly communicate, support and handle all these flight model differentiation and probably will be more trouble that it's worth, my guess is ED might enforce unified versions down the road on such modules.

 

Not to mention I don't think SFM is there to catter for the poorer or the less dedicated or the more casual players. I think it's just there because it's easier to develop and faster to get it playable, if coding and tweaking an AFM/EFM/PFM (ugh..) was as easy and cheap to develop as the SFM I doubt there would be any debate at all and AFM/EFM/PFM would be the default and only flight model.

I fully agree with you!!!

Better to have one full version of every module, not two or three versions of every module.;)

Also it will be kinda strange if two people with SFM and EFM/AFM will on the same plane will do a dogfight, one side will have the advantage over the other on the same plane.

Best decision - release SFM, make some money, after releasing EFM remove SFM. Update SFM to EFM for free. Raise price.

Guys, let them do what they want but speak with your wallets. They will either figure it out, or they will not. In either case, I am sure the next 3rd party to come along will figure it out.

Guys, let them do what they want but speak with your wallets. They will either figure it out, or they will not. In either case, I am sure the next 3rd party to come along will figure it out.

I have to disagree , tango has been extremely involved with the forum community , and voicing your concerns/opinions here will do good imo. But ofcoarse what you say about voting with your wallets is also true , as proven by this :

No all our modules will be EFM only going forwards, this was a call that we made after the experience with the Hawk and the small number of people that ordered the SFM variant.

 

Pman

edit : but i think providing feedback via forums is a good thing becouse voting with your wallets can be ineffective given how spread out DCS world is becoming (plane/era wise) , not everyone is interested in every module and so might not show their opinion on the matter regarding said module.

I should have prefaced that statement with something like...

'I think the point has been made, and with the VEAO situation, which Tango should be much more familiar with than the rest of the team, it should already be abundantly clear.'

Ah yes ok sorry my bad :)

I should have prefaced that statement with something like...

 

'I think the point has been made, and with the VEAO situation, which Tango should be much more familiar with than the rest of the team, it should already be abundantly clear.'

Well we know VEAO has learnt from their mistake. PMan has said in an interview they will not be doing the seperate SFM / AFM thing again (was in a podcast).

So clearly AvioDev haven't been paying attention.

As always, we don't comment on other developers. :)

I don't understand what cichlidfan is talking about. We have released exactly zero products. What other developers choose to do or not do is not our concern, though of course we are watching what happens closely - that is just standard business practice. :)

This discussion is starting to look like it is approaching the event horizon.

If we haven't made it clear yet:

* We are releasing SFM now to prevent delay caused by AFM development

* We are still discussing whether to offer SFM & AFM, or AFM only, once the AFM is ready

Just to really throw the proverbial cat amongst the pigeons - if you know how to edit a few files, then you can disable AFM, and edit the SFM such that you can still cheat and fly a rocket if that is what you want to do. :P Before you get too worried though, we will implement measures that will make this harder to do.

Best regards,

Tango.

* We are releasing SFM now to prevent delay caused by AFM development and make AFM update free for SFM owners

* We will are still discussing whether to offer SFM & AFM, or AFM only, once the AFM is ready

nice

I hear that i want to hear.... 8))))))

find a review on ytb

[Youtube]uIerjmD_56s

* We are releasing SFM now to prevent delay caused by AFM development and make AFM update free for SFM owners

Where do you see this?

Where do you see this?

In his dreams. He hears what he wants to hear ;)

find a review on ytb

Excellent review and module - even in its "pre-beta" state. Bravo :thumbup:

Where do you see this?

I think the "I hear that i want to hear...." was the give away there.