How I mine for radar contacts?

Right, finally broke down and grabbed FC3, mainly because i want to learn a fighter so i won't be perpetually at the mercy of CAP units in multiplay.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to make effective use of the F-15 radar in LRS and TWS mode.

I have set myself up a simple test mission with a pair of SU-25 and a pair of A-10 circling over the water, as well as a flight of KA-50 circling over land.

I know where the targets all are (roughly) so i have no trouble pointing towards them once i am airborne. what gives me fits is figuring out how to actually acquire them on my radar display.

In LRS mode, even nose in on the target, out over water, i frequently show nothing on my scope until i am within about 5-10 miles, and even then it seems a bit hit or miss. In TWS mode, i am entirely unable to register anything 90% of the time, and when i do, attempting to designate a target has no visible effect.

The really confusing thing, though, is chasing down the helicopters. I was under the impression that a helicopter made a huge radar return, thanks to the rotor blades, and that i should therefore be able to find targets from 20-40 miles with no trouble. However, i frequently close within visual range and still have nothing showing on my scope.

any advice?

any advice?

Yes, but its a very long story... unfortunately most of which your going to have to pick up on your own over time and experience, but here is the short version.

It's all to do with your radar scan range and your PRF setting.

Your PRF (Pulse Repetition Frequency) must be set according to the 'aspect' of what it is your trying to find, it is very important that you use this properly and also use your radar range appropriately too.

There is no point in using all that radar energy scanning out to 80 miles if your trying to find a guy 15 miles in front of you somewhere.

So major rule in the F-15C.... always have your radar range set to where the bandit is (if you have a rough idea) if he is less than 40 miles have the range set to 40 miles... less than 20... have it set to 20 etc.

Back to PRF.

Again this is a long story so I'll give you some basic rules to follow until you get the hang of it.

If a bandit is OUTSIDE of 25nm and is HOT you should be in HIGH PRF,

If a bandit is INSIDE of 25nm and is HOT you should be in MEDIUM PRF, (you would change to MED from HIGH if tracking a bandit from outside of 25nm as he closes in)

If a bandit is INSIDE of 25nm and is COLD you should be in MEDIUM PRF,

If a bandit is OUTSIDE of 25nm and your not sure if he is HOT or COLD you should use INTERLEAVE PRF until you establish his aspect then adjust PRF accordingly.

MEDIUM PRF is good for COLD bandits out to a range of approx 30nm.

If your not sure about what PRF is or how to change these modes consult your manual sir, it tells you all about it.

BVR Combat is hard work and it takes some time to get your head around it, there is a lot to learn and even more mistakes to be made before it all starts to click, so hang in there if it doesn't all go to plan when you step up to the Multiplayer arena... it is very unforgiving.

Don't get frustrated, try to stay focused, ask questions and learn from every engagement!

Good luck

Mav

Edit:

Just to add on the PRF settings.

You will notice that in RWS mode you see the PRF setting displayed in the bottom right corner of your radar. The selection order is INT, HIGH, MED. When you first turn your radar on you will be in INTERLEAVE, press the PRF change button once it will take you to HIGH PRF, once more for MEDIUM PRF.

It is very important that you remember this selection order as when you are in TWS mode you will NOT get any PRF display data on the radar... you have to remember a.) what mode your already in and b.) what mode is next up.

So if your in TWS with HIGH PRF selected tracking a bandit at 30 miles... when he crosses the 25nm-22nm range line from your aircraft you would press your PRF button ONCE to select MED PRF mode. Although you will get no conformation on the screen, you know in your head you have changed it and when you come out of TWS you'll notice you are sitting in MED PRF.

Hope all that makes sense!

thanks for the quick response, i will play around with PRF and see what results that gets me.

Now, what about helicopter acquisition? I was tremendously surprised that they only way i could acquire them was to go into vertical scan or boresight. I know i must be doing something wrong with my modes, but i cannot figure out what to save my life.

Again its probably down to your use of PRF and Range.

You will be amazed at how far away you can see helictopers from in an Eagle, although if they are very low and notching you the radar will have a lot of trouble tracking them.

Best way to deal with these threats (to your ground units) is to track them on radar until 10nm... then point your nose at him so you 'see' roughly where he is at 10 miles by looking at the Box on the HUD.... then select BORE mode (default 4) then point the circle on your HUD right at him and as soon as its physically possible for your radar to lock him... it will.... provided you still have him inside that circle on the HUD.

From my experience High PRF seems to work the best against heli targets.

Yeah and as Mustang pointed out you can use HIGH PRF for helicopters, this tends to work very well even when they are within 10nm, but for fixed wing aircraft follow the basic rules above.

It may also be worth noting that the radar is sensitive to the targets ground speed/closure rate. So in the case of helis they are made more difficult to pickup the slower they go. Slow flight is already in their nature, and you basically don't pick them up at all if they are in a hover at long range.

how exactly does a helicopter notch? the fact that the rotors are always moving at a high rate of speed towards and away from any emitter means they should have an enormous doppler return from any aspect.

at least, this is how it has always been explained to me when i complained of being unable to hide from AI airborne radars.

how exactly does a helicopter notch? the fact that the rotors are always moving at a high rate of speed towards and away from any emitter means they should have an enormous doppler return from any aspect.

Correct. And in the ol' IHAWK system, you could hear the rotor (extracted doppler signal from the tracking radar HPIR). This also applied to prop aircraft. You could hear the prop and even find out, if it was a single or multi prop aircraft.

There was no radar signal coming back from the helo fuselage at speeds below 160 km/h, all you could get was the rotor.

And this is a no-shit story.

Afaik the maximum displayed range on the VSD has nothing to do with what the radar itself does, it's just how you display it.. but correct me if I'm wrong.

About helos, their speed is super slow and they fly super low aswell so it's extremely difficult to find them. Notch is mainly about the target's speed coeff towards you (apart from being lower than the threat). Now this is determining for fighters because they are fast (this is why you have to turn perpendicular to the bandit, to reduce your speed coeff towards him), but if you take a helo it might be even slower than the actual required speed to notch, so in fact he might just notch you despite of flying directly towards you. I hope you get the point.

how exactly does a helicopter notch? the fact that the rotors are always moving at a high rate of speed towards and away from any emitter means they should have an enormous doppler return from any aspect.

 

at least, this is how it has always been explained to me when i complained of being unable to hide from AI airborne radars.

Well the proper response as to why the AI can doing anything, is probably as old as gaming itself. The computer cheats. Beyond that I think its been stated before in the forums that rotor doppler return isn't modeled.

Afaik the maximum displayed range on the VSD has nothing to do with what the radar itself does, it's just how you display it.. but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

About helos, their speed is super slow and they fly super low aswell so it's extremely difficult to find them. Notch is mainly about the target's speed coeff towards you (apart from being lower than the threat). Now this is determining for fighters because they are fast (this is why you have to turn perpendicular to the bandit, to reduce your speed coeff towards him), but if you take a helo it might be even slower than the actual required speed to notch, so in fact he might just notch you despite of flying directly towards you. I hope you get the point.

right, the helicopter could make an airspeed slow enough to not be noticed against the background on doppler, but the rotors will never achieve a notch.

the only explanation can be that, as blkspade pointed out, radar return in the sim is not modeled to include the rotors.

Afaik the maximum displayed range on the VSD has nothing to do with what the radar itself does' date=' it's just how you display it.. but correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote']

 

That's how it is in the game, in the real plane the VSD range setting does do some things.

 

About helos, their speed is super slow and they fly super low aswell so it's extremely difficult to find them.

 

The low altitude is generally not a factor for detection. Look down causes issues, being super low does not, not for the eagle not any other aircraft in the game.

That is correct.

the only explanation can be that, as blkspade pointed out, radar return in the sim is not modeled to include the rotors.

That's how it is in the game, in the real plane the VSD range setting does do some things.

I see. Thanks.

The low altitude is generally not a factor for detection. Look down causes issues, being super low does not, not for the eagle not any other aircraft in the game.

You know too that I meant incredible look down. You can't really ever afford to go low to kill helis. Air defenses will kick your ass :D

It's also good to get a decent foundation of how exactly your radar works, +- 60 degrees azimuth, +- 30 in TWS, etc. so that you can make your scans more efficient. If you want to know more, I suggest hoping into the 104th Teamspeak and talking to those guys. They know their stuff when it comes to BVR. If you are really serious about air combat in the Eagle, hit them up for membership.

Knowing stuff about a particular aspect of air combat (e.g. radar operation, is nice, but a good pilot requires a real foundation in everything else first. It will really make you 50 times better than Joe Schmoe who flys alone every night and develops bad habits.

Knowing stuff about a particular aspect of air combat (e.g. radar operation, is nice, but a good pilot requires a real foundation in everything else first. It will really make you 50 times better than Joe Schmoe who flys alone every night and develops bad habits.

absolutely. But, in my case, I already have a fair grasp of ACM (i've been playing flight sims of all sorts since i was eight with my first copy of Nighthawk) so the big challenge for me is figuring out proper employment of a major combat system i've never used before.