SU-25T ECM pods

I have been currently doing some testing that I need to refine and continue on a broader stage, but I have been testing to see how effective the ECM is currently for the SU-25T.

It would be the two jammer pods you put on the exterior pylons for when you are doing SEAD.

My current tests show a 0% effect on SAMS.

However what I was looking at is when the SAMS would see me, lock me up, and fire at me.

The systems I checked so far were the SA-10, SA-11, and Patriot missile systems, tested at both medium and expert levels.

The sites were placed in an open non hilly terrain.

I went in without any ECM and IR jammers on and saw what ranges everythign happened at.

I then repeated the same procedure with both ECM and IR jammers on (Not that the IR jammer would do anythign in this situation).

Both times I was at a steady 3500m altitute.

Absolutely 0% difference in everything.

Therefore what I would like to know is what exactly is the ECM supposed to do for a SU-25T, because perhaps I am not using it for the right purpose.

PS: I am in the process of checking this with shorter range SAMs. Will post ranges and all that jazz when done.

PPS: The IR jammer works beautifully by the way.

Thanks for checking this and doing the work. I'm interested in your findings.

The SU-25T is my favorite plane in the DCS series, even though I own everything but the P-51.

You know what I really love about the toad? The IR viewing pod (Mercury)... lol.

glad im not the only one who noticed lol

......Therefore what I would like to know is what exactly is the ECM supposed to do for a SU-25T.....

Short answer?

Nothing.

By the time you have arrived at the SAM's NEZ, he has already burned through any ECM you might have. He launches and you die.

ECM pods are better utilised against human opfor (fighters) if used sparingly and correctly.

Thought so...

Ok then, I'm never flying with that waste for a pylon ECM pod. Just gonna equip two more AA missiles on there instead. Lord knows you need em...

Thanks for the answer.

well, it should give you some time -meaning range before SAM burns through the jamming..

without the ECM you would be targeted at distance 100km for instance and with jammer you should be targeted at distance 80km ..thus giving you closer range so you can fire your weapons etc..

but if there is no difference then yeah, it sucks.. whats the point in wasting a pylon ..

I would be more inclined to think its a bug. Assuming the SAM gets a hard-lock on you at the earliest possible moment, an ECM enabled aircraft should be closer to the site by the time you receive a lock tone. I recommend doing the test with an A-10C to see if the sam behavior is consistent between the two. Note that the A-10C jammer might have different lock/launch ranges, but really the idea is to see if you get a lock warning at the same time.

It is possible that changes in AI sam behavior has mitigated the usage of ECM to get closer for a shot. The AI SAMS are now much more conservative with their missiles. In FC2 and FC1 I think the Sams had a tendency to shoot at targets near their max range.

My current results show that the detection and hard lock were obtained at the exact same time (With and without the pods), these tests also were repeated with the SAM at medium and Expert levels.

So bug or no bug, as far as the SU-25T is concerned, the ECM pods are meaningless "right now" against the high level SAMS. Have not tried the lower level, but I assume it will be the same story.

Don't know about the A-10C, I will test that this week and we shall see.

Did you account for SAM warm-up time? IIRC for the Patriot at least it's pretty long.

ECM is DCS does nothing at all in my experience. It certainly isn't capable of any of the things it should do vs a SAM system.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, ECM pods in DCS serve one purpose, looking pretty hanging on the jet. That's it.

Yeah Ragnar, I noticed the warm up time on the patriot missile systems.

But their hard lock was the same both times.

But yeah, Eddie describes it pretty much what I have always thought. Just a prop for you to feel safe.

does the A-10C's ECM pod work? Or any of the AI controlled aircrafts?

I thought i reamber using the ECM pod to some sucess in mutiplayer with the A-10c and the SA-8 sam system. I do reamber flying the mission "The Dam" in which flying closer to the hill full of sams, when the SA-8 whent from search to track with the lock tone i was able to engage the ECM and the lock/track tone whent away.

At least that is my experence if i reamber correctly.

I thought i reamber using the ECM pod to some sucess in mutiplayer with the A-10c and the SA-8 sam system. I do reamber flying the mission "The Dam" in which flying closer to the hill full of sams, when the SA-8 whent from search to track with the lock tone i was able to engage the ECM and the lock/track tone whent away.

 

At least that is my experence if i reamber correctly.

+1

I can't check now but A-10 ECM used to break the lock from Shilkas.

To the OP, this may sound silly, but are you 100% sure that the pods were active?

interesting topic in here! i also love the frog for proceeding a clean SEAD before the a-10 armada is launching :)

i also recognized some strange behavior with the "Fantasmagoria" L-081 emitter targeting system pod.

i flew dragons gudauta rush. there where the 4 Sam camps with 4 Buk units and some rolands around the airfield.

ok so load the frog with the pod and the kh58. after takeoff i get the radarsignal, lock, fire and hit. frog:1 sam:0 :thumbup:

back to rearm and repeated until all radar units was destroyed.

Nice!!

So know i wanted to hunt the rolands. my height was around 2k meters and around 500 km/h. no radar signal :noexpression:

closer and closer to the airfield but no signal :huh:

and then in one second it locked me and in the other it launched.

it was´nd possible for me to lock a radar signal and take ém out like before the BUKs.

I dont think that the DCS Ai is that smart to follow me optical and get the radar lock in the last second!?

i received the radar signal from the Buk even in start up on airfield!!!

i recognized that in other missions too.

 

To the OP, this may sound silly, but are you 100% sure that the pods were active?

You're right, that does sound silly.

I will do some testing with the A-10 since I'm curious now myself.

I dont think that the DCS Ai is that smart to follow me optical and get the radar lock in the last second!?

It is.

You probably got tagged by the Buk TELAR's.

It is.

 

You probably got tagged by the Buk TELAR's.

Hehe, i love it when ED resolve's reported buks.:D

(now for the capability of incoming harm's please)

I thought it was well known that ECM pods are porked?

I thought it was well known that ECM pods are porked?

They are not porked - they work perfectly well and as they should. Tell a buddy of yours to use them online against you and you'll see what I mean. SAM systems are on the other hand just that little bit more clever, rendering your Pod useless against said SAM systems.

ECM is DCS does nothing at all in my experience. It certainly isn't capable of any of the things it should do vs a SAM system.

SAM systems are on the other hand just that little bit more clever, rendering your Pod useless against said SAM systems

That doesn't mix.

Super-

"(......Therefore what I would like to know is what exactly is the ECM supposed to do for a SU-25T.....)"

Short answer?

 

Nothing.

 

By the time you have arrived at the SAM's NEZ, he has already burned through any ECM you might have. He launches and you die.

 

ECM pods are better utilised against human opfor (fighters) if used sparingly and correctly.

Depends which SAM, and which ECM. If this is early 80's youu could expect the ECM to be reasonably effective against HAWKs

"Hawk Missile Restore Reliability (MRR)

This was a program that ran between 1982 and 1984 intended to improve missile reliability.

Hawk ECCM

Running alongside the MMR program, this produced ECCM to specific threats, probably contemporary Soviet ECM pods such as the SPS-141 fitted to the Su-22, which proved moderately effective during the Iran-Iraq War. The MIM-23C and E missiles contain these fixes."

"Probably the most widespread exSoviet/Russian ECM-system is the basic SPS-141M; this was a jammer covering a single band, and usually used as a part of the SM-1 system, whose primary goal was to jam the venerable Nike Hercules and the MIM-23 Hawk SAM systems. The SM-1 and the SPS-141 combination are used on MiG-23 and MiG-25RB. The SM-1 system for the Sukhoi Su-17s and the Su-25s are already equipped with the SPS-141MVG jammers, which was also produced for export as SPS-141MVG-E, and as such acquired also by the Indian Air Force, probably for use on MiG-21s. The SPS-141MVG operates in 2 frequency bands."

by "moderately effective" I think they mean they completely negated the Iraqi Hawk sites.

That doesn't mix.

 

 

Super-

It would not. My comments are always focused solely on the behaviour In-SIM. Nothing else.

I feel like the ECM pods delay launches from older SAMs (pre-BUK).

define older SAMs. I will test it out.