Heart Broken cause of my warthog stick

2 weeks ago I started to get tingling feeling in my stick hand, like pins and needles in the thumb, and forefinger and nerve pain in my palm.

I just got back from the doctor today, he told me it is carpal tunnel syndrome caused by my love of flying with the warthog hotas :(

He told me to stop flying for a few weeks to see if it heals, if not an operation can treat it, but its not always succesful and in some cases can make the situation worse.

So, now I have 2 options, option A, is rest my hand for a few weeks and dont fly and see if it gets better, if it does then I will find a lower position for the stick so that my wrist isnt being compressed, so that hopefully it doesnt happen again or option B, sell my warthog and go back to using a smaller stick or god forbid stop flying entirely.

I am gutted, truly gutted.

I think having it lower down and possibly centred mounted between the legs would fix the problem, but i dont know.

So, is their anyone else out there who has started to get nerve pain in their hand due to the warthog ??? or am I the only unfortunate one ?

My love of flying could be cut short by some stupid nerves, this is not a happy day for me :(

I strained a muscle in my back the first day I had it, been ok since then. That totally sucks though, hopefully repositioning it will ease the strain.

Hopefully that's not the case. My flying has been cut also, I only fly on the weekend.

ergonomics are very important especially if you use it for a long time... I also had shoulder pain when I had my stick on the side (Cougar here thought but stick is a stick) and ever since I had it mounted in between my legs I no longer get this pain in the shoulder when I fly for long hours.

Most definitely hive it a rest for a few days at least and in mean time look for how to mount it in between your legs, that'll keep you busy and once you feel better you can start flying again and just not over-do it ;)

Sorry to hear about the trouble :(

When at first I had my hotas sitting on my desk, I too had some muscle pains at various places.. But since I'm putting the stick between my legs (:D), and my throttle on a stool to the left of me (still trying to think of a more definitive solution), I haven't had any issues.

I hope you get well soon!

What Kuky said is the first thing i tought can you send a picture of your "flying space"

Building a "cockpit" mock or at least putting the commands where they should beis cool but it also a matter of ergonomy and confort.

IF the hog stick is too stiff, you can always try to meka an extender "neck" so you will strain less your pulse as you will be using the entire arm to move it. More confortable between the legs like the real one.

Hey guys,

It make me sorry to hear of those problems...

I suddenly feel lucky that I had to take a brake for a while.

Anyway, my suggestion to you (that worked for me) is to dedicate a "pretty comfortable chair" for the task. using its hand rests to mount your flying gear (assuming you are not using a full scale cockpit - it should do)

make any minor adjustments as nessecery. when you want to fly simply get that chair in place,attach the connections and do our thing...

I wish you to get well and back to normal in no time.

Cheers,

Nir

Sorry to hear that guys.

I built this for my Warthog using some leftovers parts from an IKEA shelves, some parts from an old monitor arm support and some medium. Total cost: about 10 euros (had to buy the medium and 8 mm screws :noexpression:, everything else was scavenged ).

I was looking earlier on at what junk I have kicking about and I came across two black adjustable speaker stands, basically a thin tube with a flat top on it that can hold speakers and a U shaped base.

Soo, I have decided after some quick testing to see if it would fit and be comfortable, I have decided to drill 4 holes in the top surface of the speaker stand, its only 3mil thick metal, drill them 4 holes and then take the base off the warthog and then screw the stick to the speaker stand and have it between my legs.

It works, but will take time getting used to the new style.

I will also need to position the throttle on the second stand, as if I move the stick to the central position, then their is no way I can leave the throttle on the desk where it is atm, as it just wouldnt be comfortable to fly like that as it would be to far away to reach without stretching.

So I will give both stick and throttle a try on the speaker stands and if it works out, cool.

If it doesnt work out then it looks like I will have to go the route bad crc has, having the stick to the side, should that and the 2 weeks rest fail, then its either an operation to cure it or to give up flying altogether and see if it gets better on its own.

I aint giving up flying no matter what, so fingers crossed that it either goes away after a couple weeks rest and the new positioning stops it from coming back, or an op cures it so I dont have to worry about it anymore, I am praying for the former solution to do the trick.

Cheers for the love :thumbup:

Bumfire...Good Luck Buddy!!!!!:thumbup:

Bumfire,

Operation fail more than anything if you can avoid do it.

Anti inflamatory (would that be the english name) + ice + fisioterapy will get you back on time.

Basicly, always remember that you MUST feel confortable, if not, something must change before you screw your body too much.

Try to avoid surgery, rest is the faster way to get back flying, and it's safer too.

Yea, no way do I want an operation.

My neighbour had an operation on both hands due to the same thing a few years ago and she said that it made it 100% worse and both her hands are now constantly numb and with a pins and needles like feeling, it wasnt nearly as bad before she got her op, so thats the last thing I want.

I got diclofex, diclofenac sodium NSAID tablets to take for a month from the doc, heres hoping that the 2 week rest and the tablets will sort it all out for me so I can be back to flying pain free in a couple of weeks time, even using the keyboard is hurting now, so I reckon its a 2 week breather from the pc aswell.

:(. Just remember health first. Maybe use the time to work on a pit via HELIOS and any spare monitors. Mount the stick between your legs, and maybe try the 15 degree offset as well. Oh, and no more pornographic material for a while lol. Get well soon man.

Get well Bumfire, and when you get back, do what others have suggested and keep your stick low and between your knees (No thanks hassata, no more "thats what she said" jokes, perv :P )

I guess a center stick position is more ergonomic over the time as you can rest your arm on your legs during long flights.

i used some M4 (i think) machine screws to displace the joystick base from the plate about 4 inches. i place the plate under my thighs with the stick between my thighs & it's just about the right height, at least for me. it's quick & cheap.

aw man so so so sorry to hear that. :(

I have no proper words but Im going to say this:

wish you get better, rest your hand and seek therapy other than the operation if possible.

My advice pump some weights thats what F-16 pilots do so they can still work the stick at 9gs another thing is not to spend too much time flying the likes of Formation aerobatics if you are having those sorts of problems as thats the type of flying that puts the most stress on the arm. Also use the trim/autopilot also helps reduce the need to hold the stick with as much pressure as what you would if you didn't. :thumbup:

Regular breaks and stretches also help if you suffer those sorts of problems.:joystick:

Bumfire,

I feel your pain because I have Carpal Tunnel as well. The median and ulnar nerves in both arms get pinched and not only does it cause the pins and needle feeling in my hands, but severe pain in my elbows. Every hit your funny bone? That's what it feels like, and it keeps me awake at night.

Surgery is something I am seriously considering.

Just some advice though, if the doc says take a break from flight sims then do it. Trust me, it's not worth it. My doctor told me that some people do manage to recover from it, you might be one of the lucky ones.

Yea oritpro I already have slight ulnar nerve problems, my pinky and the finger next to it curl in on both hands and go numb sometimes, it isnt bad, mostly happens when i am sleeping and also happens when I am leaning on my elbow and have my face in my palm and staring at the monitor, but the carpal tunnel problem is new and alot sorer than the ulnar nerve problem, everytime I touch anything with my thumb or forefinger, it feels like I am jabbing a pin to it, even the slightest of touches.

Doc did say to me awhile ago that he could inject steroids into the elbow for the ulnar problem, but I took a pass as somehow I didnt fancy an injection in that particular place of my body since it doesnt affect me much.

I will say tho that the pills and the rest do seem to be helping, as it doesnt seem to be as sharp a pain as it was at the begining of the week, so if I was a betting man I would say that if it keeps up at this rate, I should be back to normal within a month. :pilotfly:

I feel your pain bumfire. I had to sell my original Cougar because I developed bicep tendinitis in my right arm from it. I had to go to an easier stick so I bought the Saitek X52 Pro. Now I have The HOTAS Warthog and I'm hoping nothing happens to force me to not be able to use it.

BF:

If you do repeated ice dips i guarantee you'll feel better much sooner. Fill a sink or some such with ice water, and dip your arm for 10 seconds (submerging wrist and elbow) at a time with about 5 min. between dips. Do this as often as possible and you'll be on the mend in no time. I speak from experience. Good luck.

Had a very long and detailed reply typed up... and ED forums decided to log me out so I lost everything I had written... (Trying to start over... Argh)!

Bumfire, I had a nerve pinched in my arm before and my ring finger and pinky went numb for several months. I had my chiropractor do NIR light therapy as well as regular adjustments to my elbow where the nerve that was causing my fingers to go numb is.

This was inexpensive and not intrusive at all, only annoying that I had no sensitivity in two fingers for months. I didn't stop me from flying in my normal job, nor online... however...

The reason it happened was because my elbow had been resting on the side of (not on top of) the armrest for hours upon hours of flying for weeks and months. This caused the nerve to get pinched in my elbow and my fingers to go numb.

It took me about 3 months to get my sensation back in my fingers, and my doctor (chiropractor) said the same thing: "Lay off the flying for a while". Well: 1) it's my job, and; 2) it wasn't going to happen online either as we had one of the biggest aerobatic shows coming up at the time.

So, I went back to the root of the problem... Seating position and ergonomics! ***EVERYONE WITH THEIR THROTTLE AND STICK ON A DESK SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING***

Can't stress this enough, but anyone flying with their HOTAS on a desk is just setting themselves up for health issues. You don't need a pit either, and this is my point... I have my throttle on a pair of cinder blocks positioned closely to my body on the left side of my seat bottom cushion. The height is exactly 16 inches off the floor, add another 1 3/4 inch for the throttle base and it sits just under 17 3/4 inches above the floor. My seat bottom on my chair is exactly 17 inches off the floor. This is important! It lets me rest my hand on the throttle where it would naturally want to be even if the throttle wasn't there. Final step: make sure there's no armrest interferring with your elbow. If there's an armrest your arm should rest on top of it, not push against the side of it or at a weird angle. This is why the cinder blocks and throttle are aligned right next to the seat so my arm doesn't stretch out or angle away from my body. It should be a very natural posture while sitting.

Now, onto the stick handle... I simply place it between my legs, on the seat bottom itself. The base plate of the HOTAS Warthog sticks out about 1/5 of its length at the front of the seat (but it's also angled). I angle the stick with the natural angle my forearm has when I keep my upper arm parallel to my body and then angle my forearm as if I was grabbing hold of my... [:music_whistling:]. This angle is the same alignment (or twist) you'll want your stick handle to have (as mentioned earlier). It lets you rest (i.e. RELAX) your right forearm on your thigh while flying. With your upper arm parallel to your upper body (down the side), and your forearm aligned with the handle.. you should position the the stick itself right in front of your "Randy Johnson". You'll be all set with a feather light touch on the controls, and very comfortable flying! (It may even make you a better stick). How far out your base plate on the HOTAS Warthog will stick out depends on how big you are, but in general I leave just enough room so I can pull the stick all the way back to its stop without hitting the "jewels" or causing my wrist to have an un-natural angle with the stick pulled all the way back.

I've said this before, but seating position is THE single most important thing for precise and comfortable flying. Anyone using a throttle and stick on top of a desk is commiting what I like to call "HOTAS abuse". Even half the people who place their HOTAS' to the sides of their chairs are doing it in the worst possible and non-ergonomic ways (requiring them to stretch their arms out and away from their bodies).

Everyone really should pay attention to this, because I've been there, had health issues with it... (almost developed carpel tunnel once too from my force sensor stick at one time, but that's another story). I never stopped flying though, in real life nor in the sim! The answer is: Take care of the problem at hand. First and foremost, see a doctor/chiropractor for some treatment. Secondly, fix your setup!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't require a pit, and hardly any money to have a good seating position with ergonomic placement of the flight controls. Just be smart about it!

Seat height, lateral displacement, fore/aft positioning etc. of the controls... it all makes a huge difference in not only control, but you won't get fatigued and as in your case (and mine, thanks to a poorly placed armrest) substancially reduce the risk for health issues.

Your condition will get better, but in the meantime tackle the problem at hand!:joystick:

sorry to read about what has happened and I would suggest, at this early stage, to get that wrist to a masseuse.

fwiw, I don't grip the hotas stick but use a more open hand approach... for roll the stick is positioned on the pads of my palms just under the knuckles and middle/ ring finger tips.. and for pitch it positioned between the heel of my palm and basically my middle finger.

There's never a real need to grip the stick tight. keep a loose wrap (steering wheel grip) and let the arm do the work

I was suffering an RSI (mouse induced) on the back of my wrist (back hand) and on starting working as a rigger, hauling up weighty loads on rope/ pulleys (concert rigging), I found hauling the loads remedied my RSI, and let's just say I changed my mouse habits.